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  1. #21
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    Time for a hunger strike.
    Wouldn't they be forced to tube feed you ?

  2. #22
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    I know analog is of decreasing importance to most people, but it does somewhat go along with the discussion of what channels can and should be included in any type of basic package beyond local OTA stations. It seems a little strange that Rogers removed Teletoon from analog service before an American specialty channel like AMC. And last year when they shifted some analog channel numbers around, putting Treehouse and CTVNews on lower analog positions, why would Spike, A&E, and TLC be left in the presumably safe (for now) lower tier? Do some of the American specialty channels have preferential contractual arrangements that keep them where they are, even over some Canadian channels? Is it technical reasons that cause analog channels 43-58 to have to be removed before other numbers, and if so will Rogers take the opportunity to move The Score to a different position at the same time they change its name?

  3. #23
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    Good questions. I have some bad answers.

    The technical aspects are obviously beyond my scope of knowledge, but other than keeping analog channels 70 and 60 (in some areas), the actual analog channel number carries less importance than the removal of the actual channel itself ... based on the fact that Teletoon, TCM etc. are on different analog channels in different areas, but were still removed (for example: Teletoon is on analog channel 41 in some areas, but was still removed -- Slice is on analog channel 41 in Toronto and still available). And in some areas, some of the analog channels that were removed and dumped to digital only, came from the first 16 analog positions (CTV1 alternates, CTV2 alternates, and Chex -- part of basic, I assume) -- other channels moved into those analog positions. Odd stuff, indeed.

    The Speed channel was also available on analog in some areas, until it was also recently dumped to digital only. Why it lasted so long in some areas is also quite baffling to me. Mister Rogers is obviously too wacky to comprehend ... perhaps he's using speed.

    The next two analog channels to vanish from Toronto should be HGTV (46) and AMC (55). They have already been removed from various areas, so Toronto and other areas should logically follow that pattern of removal (but I haven't seen any definitive proof yet).

    The Score and TVTropolis have a Rogers connection, so perhaps they will survive the analog purge altogether, or at least until all the others have been removed first.

    Another odd situation occurs for ShopTV (59). Apartment buildings use analog channel 59 for the Lobby camera (hey, put that cigarette out!), so digital is needed to watch that channel (not that you'd want to). Yet another reason to sell your house and move into an apartment.

    And I assume that since some areas perhaps had two or more feeds of CTV (Kitchener/London/Toronto) and CTV2 (London/Toronto) on analog, one of the more distant feeds was also recently removed from the analog lineup in some areas (Collingwood, Elmvale, Orangeville, Caledon and Grand Valley ... aka: The middle of nowhere?).

    Finally, Chex was removed from analog in Barrie, Borden, Orillia & Keswick.

    Source: http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.por...setProvince=ON
    [Rogers.com Network Enhancement]
    Last edited by PokerFace; 04-07-2013 at 04:56 PM. Reason: typo
    Warning: I'm not playing with a full deck.

  4. #24
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    Montreal
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    The business model is the variable.

    Over Vidéotron back in the 2000's, if you are an internet-only or digital basic only subscriber, they put a filter that blocks analog channel 7 to 57. Over the years, they had to remove some analog positions such as 45, 46, 50, and so on, but those positions were left unused, while positions on 59 and beyond were used for digital TV QAMs and internet. Clients were given the choice of additional terminals for 3$, or analog service for 10$, thus removing filters.

    With higher digital penetration rates, they informed clients subscribed to higher tiers (41 to 57) that the less popular specialty channels will be digital only, forcing more digital penetration. Over a summer, they replaced all 7 to 57 filters to 7 to 38 filters, then started using 41 to 57 range for more digital TV QAMs.

    If I'm not mistaken, Rogers forces you to take the highest analog tier in order to take digital cable, which is why their basic service is expensive, as you need to pay for all those channels in analog form and they force those channels on digital basic as well.

    Which channels to remain on analog, which ones to remove, it's a matter of subscriber numbers, money and contract.
    For example, Shaw Media have sign a contract with Rogers : keep Showcase on analog, I'll have at least xyz million subscribers guaranteed, 39 cents per subscriber per month. Corus also counts on CMT on analog for their small 4 cents per subscriber per month... but it's still a useless channel nobody watches!
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  5. #25
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    Unless things have changed during the last 6 months or so, Rogers doesn't force you to take any analog tier (other than the basic analog tier ch. 2-28 and of course the few channels that are placed in higher positions like 70, etc.) to get the digital cable box. I started with the first basic tier and then I eventually added the 2nd analog tier and then finally the third analog tier when I became a VIP. I could have also dumped the 2nd analog tier and just kept the first basic tier and 3rd tier if I wanted to, but the difference in price was too low to justify doing such a thing.

    In fact, it's best to start off with all 3 analog tiers and then if you can't afford them, or don't like the 2nd or 3rd tier enough to justify the cost, just call Rogers and cancel the tier(s) you don't want. In some situations they won't even bother sending somebody to install the trap and you'll still get to watch all 3 analog tiers, even though you're just paying for the basic first tier and a digital box. And it's also possible that after you cancel your entire Rogers cable service that they might not even bother to disconnect your analog service.

    My mother had her analog cable shut off the very next day after she cancelled her Rogers service, while several people I know have had their 3-tiered analog cable left on for years after they cancelled their service (or downsized their analog package to only the basic tier). In some cases, a few months after you cancel your service and lose all of your analog channels, some of them might reappear and stay active for several years (due to some work in your area). So, even if you've already cut the cord, it's still wise to keep checking your analog channels every now and then, just in case a technician came to your street or apartment building and accidentally hooked you up.
    Warning: I'm not playing with a full deck.

  6. #26
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    May 2012
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    According to my Rogers Cable bill, effective May 20th the History Channel, TVtropolis and HGTV will go to digital.

    I am really enjoying Vikings on the History Channel. I hope that the first season ends before May 20th.

  7. #27
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    Hmmm. I assume AMC will be dumped some time in the summer.

    TVtropolis ... I'm surprised it's being dumped so soon, but all bad things must come to an end.
    Warning: I'm not playing with a full deck.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    . Corus also counts on CMT on analog for their small 4 cents per subscriber per month... but it's still a useless channel nobody watches!
    So because you think CMT is a "useless channel" it must mean nobody watches it? Okay then.

    Top 20 Most Watched Specialty Channels for Winter/Spring 2013 (Adults 25-54)

    1. TSN
    2. History
    3. Sportsnet
    4. Discovery
    5. YTV
    6. Showcase
    7. W Network
    8. HGTV
    9. Food Network
    10. Teletoon English
    11. Space
    12. Comedy
    13. Bravo
    14. Slice
    15. National Geographic Channel
    16. Action
    17. TVtropolis
    18. CBC News Network
    19. CMT
    19. OLN

  9. #29
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    By the way, it was recently mentioned in the Digital Home forums that both Spike TV and BBC World News will eventually be kicked off analogue, which means that even some 2nd tier Rogers' analogue channels can be kicked to the digital-only world, sooner rather than later.

    --------------

    How in the world is YTV #5 for Adults 25-54 ? Doesn't that make Showcase look really bad?

    There are many programmes on YTV that attract both the young and more mature viewer, but I didn't think that there would be enough diverse content on YTV to catapult it to #5. Perhaps many of the more mature viewers are simply watching some of the YTV content with their children ... but I still don't see how Showcase can be #6, unless all those reruns are driving some potential viewers away.

    Positions #14-19 would make sense if there were only 20 specialty channels ... although CBC News Network should perhaps be a bit higher than #18.

    Are Premium Specialty channels like TMN and Super Channel not included on the list because they are not eligible, or is it simply because they are not part of a cheap package, and thus basically priced off this list?

    If E!, Much Music and MuchMore truly have lower ratings than CMT and OLN, that's also quite embarrassing (even though E! has lowered its quality/value this year, in my opinion).

    However, when I look through the list of our specialty channels on wikipedia, the ones that didn't make this list don't seem to be too deserving or worthwhile, anyway.

    Statistics don't lie, but perhaps in this case they are somehow clouding the truth. Positions #15 through #19 should have much lower ratings than the top 10, if not, I'm even more confused.

    Perhaps CMT and OLN are apparently tied at #19 because the viewers couldn't decide which channel was worse.

    OLN recently added Toy Hunter (airs on The Travel Channel in the USA) to its Thursday evening lineup, and although I've already seen all the episodes online, it does help further illustrate the fact that our specialty channels don't always broadcast what you'd expect them to. The content is scattered all over the place, quite often on specialty channels that you might only watch once or twice a week (or stumble upon while channel surfing).
    Warning: I'm not playing with a full deck.

  10. #30
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    If you go to total Viewer's, I'm sure MuchMusic, MuchMore, MTV, MTV2 and E! have more viewers than CMT but many of the viewer's would probably fall outside the 25-54 demographic.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=PokerFace;61622]
    How in the world is YTV #5 for Adults 25-54 ?
    Perhaps many of the more mature viewers are simply watching some of the YTV content with their children
    This is what's happening. It's very difficult to have kids and not be exposed to kids programming.

    Are Premium Specialty channels like TMN and Super Channel not included on the list because they are not eligible, or is it simply because they are not part of a cheap package, and thus basically priced off this list?

    They are not excluded from this list. The price of these channels means they have fewer viewers.


    If E!, Much Music and MuchMore truly have lower ratings than CMT and OLN, that's also quite embarrassing (even though E! has lowered its quality/value this year, in my opinion).
    Well, this list is for Adults 25-54 and MuchMusic targets the 12-24 demographic, and adult co-viewing is more common with kids than teens, however MuchMusic is struggling in their target demographic as well, this is why Bell Media keeps asking the CRTC to reduce the amount of music videos MuchMusic is required to air, their target audience is no longer viewing music videos on television and it's hurting their ratings, which is hurting their revenue and last year ensured that the network actually lost money.

    As for E!, I agree with you about the quality decline and their ratings reflect it. They went from being one of the fastest growing cable networks to a network that continues to put out flop after flop unless it's a spin-off. It's coming to the point where shows are getting burned off and E! Canada has even started pulling some E! programming from the schedule. In fact much of the programming E! Canada airs comes from other U.S. cable networks, they don't even air E!'s flagship newsmagazine the same day as E! because so few people were watching (it now airs one day later at noon). Adult 25-54 is the key demographic for E! and MuchMore so they certainly can't be happy with either channel falling outside of the top 20.
    Last edited by TVViewer; 04-20-2013 at 06:00 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoranget View Post
    If you go to total Viewer's, I'm sure MuchMusic, MuchMore, MTV, MTV2 and E! have more viewers than CMT but many of the viewer's would probably fall outside the 25-54 demographic.
    No because total viewers would include viewers 55+ and that's a huge viewership demographic, much larger than the teens who would help MuchMusic and MTV. The ratings, revenue, and profitability of MTV and MuchMusic are declining and both channels lost money for Bell Media last year. As for E! and MuchMore, most of their audience does fall within the Adult 25-54 demographic, so they have no excuse they are just poor performers.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerFace View Post
    Statistics don't lie, but perhaps in this case they are somehow clouding the truth. Positions #15 through #19 should have much lower ratings than the top 10, if not, I'm even more confused.

    Rankings 14-19 do have lower ratings than the top 10, not to the point where "nobody is watching" but they aren't competing with those channels for the top 10 slot, there's a larger gap between TSN and History but then things start getting close, Showcase, W Network, HGTV, and Food Network are practically in a 4 way tie, there is also practically a 2 way tie with Slice & National Geographic Channel and Action & TVtropolis. Anyways my point was that if CMT was really a channel "nobody watches" it wouldn't be among the top 20 most watched, I don't understand why some people like InMontreal assume that just because they personally don't like a certain channel everyone else must dislike it as well.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerFace View Post
    By the way, it was recently mentioned in the Digital Home forums that both Spike TV and BBC World News will eventually be kicked off analogue ...
    Yeah, this week I strangely got a letter from Rogers about a few channel numbers being shifted around including Spike and BBC World News being removed from their two-digit channel number positions on May 23rd, although it didn't mention analog at all. I don't remember getting a letter from Rogers other times they've similarly shifted channels around, at least probably not since the 1990s. At most I think they might have sometimes inserted their own crawls along the bottom of the screen for a week or two before it happened in recent years.

    Is AMC a particularly popular channel? Maybe it's just some of these channels are getting removed two or three at a time from analog by Rogers once their existing contracts have expired? Otherwise it seems that in general the specialty channels being left on analog are the more popular Canadian ones or channels more aimed at children, with the apparent exception of Teletoon being removed.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 04-21-2013 at 02:27 PM.

  15. #35
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    According to my Rogers Cable bill, effective June 17th The Score, BNN, Space, Comedy Network (East) or Family Channel will all go digital.

    I am only sorry to see BNN and Space go -- not enough to pay Rogers for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avonregal View Post
    According to my Rogers Cable bill, effective May 20th the History Channel, TVtropolis and HGTV will go to digital.

    I am really enjoying Vikings on the History Channel. I hope that the first season ends before May 20th.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avonregal View Post
    According to my Rogers Cable bill, effective June 17th The Score, BNN, Space, Comedy Network (East) or Family Channel will all go digital.

    I am only sorry to see BNN and Space go -- not enough to pay Rogers for it.
    People won't be happy to see Comedy and Family go digitial.

  17. #37
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    At least much of the content can be streamed for free from their websites.

    I will miss The Score (my laundry room only has free analogue service).
    Warning: I'm not playing with a full deck.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerFace View Post
    ... I will miss The Score (my laundry room only has free analogue service).
    Like I said before, I think it would be surprising if Rogers removed TheScore from analog so soon after acquiring ownership of the channel. They're supposedly announcing a new Sportsnet name for it on July 1, and could possibly take the opportunity to move it to another position or maybe even shift other things around.

    Regarding AMC, I had missed that earlier this year there was a U.S. style public carriage dispute with AMC running warnings and having a website aimed at Rogers customers. This is the first time I've heard of this kind of thing involving an American specialty channel and a Canadian BDU like Rogers, as opposed to something just involving CRTC regulations like the Spike TV dispute. It was reported on March 1 that a new carriage agreement had been reached, so I wonder if that may have something to do with Rogers keeping AMC in an advantageous channel position over some popular Canadian channels.

    If that's why AMC has stayed on Rogers analog cable, not to appear to necessarily agree with Sun News, but it would seem to give a clear advantage in Canada to the U.S. channels, who are also supported by the large American market, over the Canadian ones, particularly with the U.S. channels increasingly ignoring their supposed genre and becoming more like the broadcast networks in airing anything they think will attract the most viewers and subscribers. But there is no real equivalent of simsubbing to give the Canadian specialty channels preferential treatment in Canada. Of course the CRTC could partly end the situation by regulating against any deals involving a minimum amount of penetration for the non-Canadian channels. I'd prefer they made it against the rules for any channel to have that kind of deal instead of the current vague suggestion against it, and maybe mandate the "skinny basic" of local OTA and 9(1)(h) channels, and order all others to be available a-la-carte, with perhaps only the Canadian channels also available in various packages worked out by the Canadian BDUs and broadcasters.

    It also makes me wonder about the complete silence in Canada regarding the Speed/Fox Sports 1 situation. Could Fox be negotiating deals with the major Canadian BDUs to keep a Canadian feed of the channel available here, even when it should be removed if the CRTC regulations were followed?
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 05-15-2013 at 12:41 PM.

  19. #39
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    Sportsnet1 isn't available on analogue, so why does The Score (Sportsnet X) need to be?

    AMC doesn't belong on analogue, but probably did strong-arm Rogers into allowing it to remain there.

    It was odd to see AMC try to spin Rogers as the bad guy by reaching out to Canadians. Who cares what Canadians think? Oh, I guess desperate channels like AMC care. Look out Starlight, AMC might start a Canadian version of itself ... CMC (Canadian Movie Crap) ... We've got Canadian crap that you should be watching!
    Warning: I'm not playing with a full deck.

  20. #40
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    I think Rogers will be slowly remove ALL specialty channels from analogue, leaving only the basic package. Analogue is in the process of being phased out, like it or not- digital is the future.

    I'd prefer they made it against the rules for any channel to have that kind of deal instead of the current vague suggestion against it, and maybe mandate the "skinny basic" of local OTA and 9(1)(h) channels
    I would like to see them mandate a skinny basic as well because things are getting really out of hand here as the BDU's just keep jacking up the price- basic now costs around $40 on most providers, that is just crazy IMO. My proposal would be to mandate (since they won't offer it on their own) a skinny basic that would be offered alongside the existing basic package that also contains some specialty channels. This would give consumers two options- a smaller, cheaper basic package that features only locals and CRTC mandated services or the existing basic package that contains some specialty channels and is sold at a premium for whatever reason. Those who are on a budget, who don't watch a lot of television and those who simply don't what to pay 40 bucks a month for crap would have the option of subscribing to the smaller basic package.

    The new commish has come out as being pro-consumer, well one way to demonstrate if he really does care about consumers would be to force BDU's to offer a cheaper basic package since they won't do it willingly. I think the sky rocketing price of basic and also the fact its mandatory is one of the main reasons people are either moving to online services or going OTA.

 

 

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