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  1. #21
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    Yes, but in the last couple of days I've read some articles from sports media or racing columnists who assumed Speed is changing because it was losing money, although that was entirely from their American and/or Nascar centred point of view that ignores the rest of the world. And it could well be true that an all-motorsports channel can't succeed there. It may also be overly optimistic to think that Bell or Rogers would have any interest in trying to quickly create their own motorsports channel to replace Speed in Canada, even if it involved producing only a small amount of their own original programming. Therefore, as I mentioned in the previous post, I think the best course of action may be to encourage the Canadian BDUs to get Motors TV. BTW, I think Motors TV is based in France, so maybe there could be a different English and French language version available in different parts of Canada?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoranget View Post
    I don't think TSN and Rogers Sportsnet will bother with anything because CBS Sports and most likely FOX Sports wont have any exclusive rights to programming in Canada...
    But if Fox Sports, then presumably NBC Sports and ESPN, are allowed to have their channels be directly available in Canada, would that open up the possibility of them having the Canadian rights to major programming? If it did, that could kill off the Canadian channels.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    But if Fox Sports, then presumably NBC Sports and ESPN, are allowed to have their channels be directly available in Canada, would that open up the possibility of them having the Canadian rights to major programming? If it did, that could kill off the Canadian channels.
    If anything i could see a Espn Canada and Nbc Sports Canada but even then it might be pushing it.

  4. #24
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    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...Media/FS1.aspx
    A month before launching its much publicized all-sports network, Fox has yet to cut carriage deals with three of the country’s four biggest distributors...

    One unanswered question is what will happen if a distributor fails to reach an agreement for FS1. Time Warner Cable, DirecTV and Dish Network have contracts that call for carriage of a Fox-produced motorsports channel. If Fox simply goes dark, it could be in violation of those deals, sources said. It’s not clear what Fox will provide distributors that don’t cut FS1 deals but still have contracts to carry Speed. Distributors say they’ve been told that one option is that Fox will provide a watered-down motorsports channel that would run in place of Speed, possibly even keeping the Speed name. There’s precedence for such a move: When Fox switched Fox Reality Channel into NatGeo Wild last year, it provided a several-hour loop of reality programming for the distributors that did not sign deals for NatGeo Wild.
    I assume there's a strong chance that's what we'll also get in Canada. Although I'm not sure how they could get away with it being more watered-down than it is now and still call it a motorsports channel.

    There is also a Fox-owned Australian version of Speed that apparently may be continuing, so that may also have some relation to what Fox keeps showing us in order to keep getting their contracted subscription fees from Canada and the US providers that haven't yet signed on to Fox Sports 1. If it has everything that's on the Aussie channel (minus IndyCar that would be presumably blacked out on Speed when on Sportsnet), that would actually be a huge improvement with more racing and less of the alleged 'reality' and game shows. Looking at their list of programming, it's most of the same racing that's on Motors TV.
    http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/whats-on
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 07-16-2013 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #25
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    Thanks for the link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    I assume there's a strong chance that's what we'll also get in Canada. Although I'm not sure how they could get away with it being more watered-down than it is now and still call it a motorsports channel.
    I doubt it. I don't think Fox is trying to renegotiate their Canadian rates.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan View Post
    Thanks for the link.I doubt it. I don't think Fox is trying to renegotiate their Canadian rates.
    I'm not sure what you mean. What is it you doubt?.. that Canada will continue getting Speed (or some version of it) after August 17?

    Putting things together as they become known, it looks like that's what's going to happen, although nothing has been officially confirmed by anyone yet.

    There is no "rebrand", "renaming", "replacing" or whatever term they were attempting to use to fool people. It was all a con job, comparable to the Sun TV / Sun News situation in Canada. Fox is starting a completely new channel in the US, Fox Sports 1, and were disingenuously trying to use another older channel of theirs in attempting to dupe cable companies into carrying it. And much like Quebecor in Canada, it didn't work for Fox in the US because no one was fooled. The new channel and old channel are two separate entities. They can't just change one into the other, in Canada for Quebecor because each channel had their own individual and very different types of licences, in the US for Fox because of their existing and continuing contracts for Speed.

    None of this ever had anything to do with Canada, other than maybe the increasingly non-motorsports American version of Speed that we've been getting may change or hopefully be replaced with a much better one that's the same or very similar to the Fox-owned one that's continuing to exist in Australia -- a motorsports channel that actually airs motorsports.

    Apparently Fox is contractually obligated to continue providing a motorsports channel to some of the biggest US cable and satellite companies, so Speed will continue in at least some form in the US, presumably at least until the existing contracts expire.

    Even the cable and satellite companies that did agree to carry the new channel, Fox Sports 1, are not just simply continuing under the contract they had for Speed. They had to sign new deals for more money, so it is a new channel, not a rebranding of Speed.

    I would assume the only evidence we will see in Canada of Fox Sports 1 will be the promos on the Fox over-the-air stations and maybe one or two of their talking-head yak-fest shows if they can get Sportsnet360 to pick them up.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 07-16-2013 at 11:01 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. What is it you doubt?.. that Canada will continue getting Speed (or some version of it) after August 17?
    I doubt that Canada will get a watered-down version of Speed even if Fox does produce one for American distributors that don’t make a deal for FS1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    They can't just change one into the other, in Canada for Quebecor because each channel had their own individual and very different types of licences, in the US for Fox because of their existing and continuing contracts for Speed.
    Sure they can. That's what happened with The Nashville Network/TNN/Spike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    Apparently Fox is contractually obligated to continue providing a motorsports channel to some of the biggest US cable and satellite companies, so Speed will continue in at least some form in the US, presumably at least until the existing contracts expire.
    I think they probably will get a deal for FS1 on all major U.S. distributors (replacing Speed). If they don't and do what they did with Fox Reality Channel, it won't be a channel that anyone wants. It will be a F-you to those distributors that haven't signed up for FS1 and show reruns of junk link Car Warriors and Pinks.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan View Post
    I doubt that Canada will get a watered-down version of Speed even if Fox does produce one for American distributors that don’t make a deal for FS1.
    I would say the version of Speed we've been getting in recent years is already watered-down from what it was previously, and compared to what Australia gets. Is it possible to water-down water?

    I think that Sports Business Journal article, and any other discussion of Fox Sports 1 applies solely to the US. The writer is simply drawing an analogy to what happened in the US with NatGeo Wild. Fox may try to bully the hold outs there into taking the new Fox Sports 1 channel, but trying to do that and eventually discontinuing Speed in Canada would have no point, where the only result for Fox would be losing all of the money they get now each month from Canadian subscribers. If, as you say and sounds realistic, they've made no attempt to renegotiate anything in Canada, that would presumably point to them continuing to provide Speed to Canada, just hopefully more like the one in Australia than what we've been getting here in recent years.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 07-17-2013 at 07:46 AM.

  9. #29
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    Two columns, Pros and Cons.
    - Canadians have access to CBS Sports Network, Gold Channel, NFL Network, MLB Network and Big Ten Network, so Fox will shoot itself in the foot if they exit the Canadian market.
    - On the other hand, if they provide the full Fox Sports 1 programming to Canadians, many sports will have to be blackout, such as UFC and baseball games scheduled to air on Sportsnet, but they should be fine with all the filler shows. They already provide a canadian feed of Speed, so fillers will replace the blackouts on FS1.
    - If they continue to provide the water-down Speed to Canadians, well, they'll avoid blackouts but they'll be providing only old material not worth watching. Fox already require Speed to be part of some packages and cannot be picked à la carte, so they'll simply become like any other specialty channel in Canada : put anything on, put the weak channel in a package everyone wants and pick, and laugh all the way to the bank.

    We'll see what will happen next month.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    ... so they'll simply become like any other specialty channel in Canada : put anything on, put the weak channel in a package everyone wants and pick, and laugh all the way to the bank.

    We'll see what will happen next month.
    I don't think Fox could get away with that in Canada, at least not for very long depending on the details on their contracts with the Canadian BDUs, before Bell, Rogers, etc., would just get rid of the watered-down Speed and leave Fox with nothing.

    I think it's column number 3 -- provide Canada with a real motorsports version of Speed that's the same or very similar to the one they provide Australia. I don't see what other realistic choice they have except to walk away and get nothing.
    But, yeah, we'll find out for sure what's happening sometime in the next month.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    I think it's column number 3 -- provide Canada with a real motorsports version of Speed that's the same or very similar to the one they provide Australia. I don't see what other realistic choice they have except to walk away and get nothing.
    Australia and Canada are two different matters. They can operate one channel from their headquarters and get it distributed in both US and Canada, but whenever the broadcast rights cannot be obtained for Canada, they simply flip a switch with alternate programming, eventho they advertised the show as usual during the last two weeks.

    As for Australia, due to timezone difference, they have their own channel operated there.

    Canada could redistribute the water-down version of Speed that will be distributed to reluctant american service providers, but Fox's ultimate goal is not to improve the programming of Speed, but to let it run until the contract expires or until all providers will have switch to Fox Sports 1. And again, sports events on FX and Fuel TV will be carried over to Fox Sports 1 (such as UFC), so their customers will scream out loud, just like when Sportsnet One launched two years ago on Rogers and dumping half of the Blue Jays games while no other providers was carrying the channel.

    Interesting story is Soapnet, which became Disney Junior on March 22nd, 2012. Soapnet continued `: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapnet

    Bottom line, if Canada continues receiving Speed, it will have no interesting new/live programming, and eventually die out.
    "It's not a rerun if you haven't watched it yet." (© 2010 by TVViewer)
    "Ne jamais s'obstiner avec un épais. Il va vous abaisser à son niveau et vous battre avec l'expérience."

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    ... As for Australia, due to timezone difference, they have their own channel operated there...
    No, it has nothing to do with time zones, and there's really not much at all that's particularly Australian about the Speed channel they get. It's not like broadcast networks with pre-recorded dramas or comedies they want to air at 8 or 9pm in every time zone. Look at the link I posted above. The large majority of what they air is racing that comes from Europe and North America, with much of it live.

    Maybe I should have described it better or called it an International version of Speed instead of Australian. Latin America also has their version or versions of Speed, that are also different from the US or Australia, but with some of the same programming. I just used Australia as the example because I thought it would be the most relevant to us in Canada. Motors TV is very similar, with basically most of the same racing programming, but with minor variations in different parts of Europe.

    What we've been getting in Canada is the American version of Speed that Fox has crappified for the last several years by getting rid of much of the racing and instead showing their own productions of alleged reality and game shows, while the versions of Speed shown in the other countries have remained motorsports channels, as the Speed or Speedvision we got in Canada used to be before Fox bought it. It seemed to me that that Fox let the channel be run by people who did not like motorsports, or had perhaps concluded with some validity that 99.99% of Americans had no interest in watching any o' that furin' racin' that ain't Nascawr.

    What's disappearing is just the American version of Speed that we've been getting in Canada, not the versions in other countries. It's probably not too much trouble for them to now replace it in Canada with something that's mostly the same as what the other countries get, with minor variations such as blackouts or replacement programming for the IndyCar and selected Nascar events on TSN and Sportsnet. I don't think there would be much problem with the rest of the racing (FIA GT, World Endurance Championship, etc., etc.) because, as I mentioned above, it's what we used to get in Canada on the channel before Fox bought it, and none of it is anything TSN or Sportsnet wants.

    If not by their contracts with Canadian BDUs, then by the CRTC regulations that allow them to stay on the list of allowed non-Canadian channels, Fox has little choice other than to continue providing a Speed channel to Canada or walk away and get nothing. Fox Sports 1 is a new channel that they would have to apply to get added to the list, and would first of all need a Canadian BDU to "sponsor" the request, and then get approved. I doubt that would happen and I have not heard of any attempt to do so anyway. In fact, none of the Canadian BDUs or Fox has said anything at all yet concerning Canada, which would lead you to believe that nothing will change and Canada will continue getting Speed.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 07-19-2013 at 09:19 AM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    ... that would presumably point to them continuing to provide Speed to Canada...
    Fox is not going to produce a Speed channel for Canada after they stop the American version. I don't think that would even be allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    ... provide Canada with a real motorsports version of Speed that's the same or very similar to the one they provide Australia.
    Wishful thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    I don't think Fox could get away with that in Canada, at least not for very long depending on the details on their contracts with the Canadian BDUs, before Bell, Rogers, etc., would just get rid of the watered-down Speed and leave Fox with nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    They can operate one channel from their headquarters and get it distributed in both US and Canada, but whenever the broadcast rights cannot be obtained for Canada, they simply flip a switch with alternate programming ...

    Bottom line, if Canada continues receiving Speed, it will have no interesting new/live programming, and eventually die out.
    I agree with both of you on those statements.

  14. #34
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    Fox already produces a Speed channel for several other countries, most of them with smaller populations and presumably fewer subscribers than they already have in Canada. There wouldn't have to be much that was specifically Canadian about it, just some specific blackouts or replacements as they do for these other countries, with everything else the same as the other countries see.

    I'm not aware of anything regarding the CRTC list of approved non-Canadian channels specifying that it would have to be the American version of Speed that we see in Canada. Have you looked at the list? There's channels from many different countries, including New Zealand.

  15. #35
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    I don't believe Fox will produce a Canadian Speed because they'd rather have Fox Sports 1 in Canada and the Canadian market is an afterthought for them. I also don't think the CRTC would allow it. Replacing programming that the American channel doesn't have Canadian rights for is one thing, but they don't want Americans making channels exclusively for Canadians.

    It's possible that the Australian Speed or another motorsports channel could come to Canada someday, although I doubt there is enough demand for it. I don't think it will happen when Speed changes to Fox Sports 1.

  16. #36
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    Probably because of the continual Fox Sports 1 countdown hype we've been seeing on the American version of Speed we still get in Canada for now, Bell has apparently now started responding to customers questions on this matter by telling them that Canada will continue receiving Speed. I don't know when it will happen, but it probably wouldn't hurt if Fox could arrange to switch over the version they send to Canada sooner than August 17 if they can.

    I don't think Fox made any attempt to get Fox Sports 1 into Canada, likely understanding that regulations wouldn't allow it, if they even cared enough to look into it. The Fox Sports 1 they're starting in the US is just about the US, not Canada or the rest of the world.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 07-19-2013 at 10:57 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan's Monkey View Post
    Fox already produces a Speed channel for several other countries, most of them with smaller populations and presumably fewer subscribers than they already have in Canada.
    Well, for starters, Rupert Murdoch, CEO of News Corp (owner of Fox) is based from Australia, so there's no surprise here that Speed Australia have its own licence. Other countries allow foreign companies to import their brand and operate locally.

    Canada doesn't allow foreign companies to operate locally or remotely and TARGET Canadians specifically. The CRTC list you mentionned provides services that are unique in its genre and will not compete against an existing canadian service at the moment of their addition. It just makes sense to find international all-news channels in the list, the NASA, niche sports channels (such as college games), a lot of ethnic channels which doesn't carry dubbed/subtitled american network shows, and so on... Any channel rebranding or changing its nature of service gets to keep its place in the list until there's a complain followed by a hearing to get its status revoked.

    Speed has not gain a canadian licence, it's just authorized for distribution in Canada because at the time it was approved, there was no canadian channel dedicated to motorsports. Some of you who watch TNN/Spike noticed that whenever a show or movie is replaced with fillers for Canadians, the advertisement spots are just promos for the station or replaced with a canadian service provider promo. It cannot sell specifically-made-for-canadian paid advertisements.

    With that in mind, Fox cannot operate a Speed channel specifically for Canada.
    So, we're back to square one : either we get the cheap Speed version, either we get the Fox Sports 1 with blackouts/simsubs whenever necessary, but we cannot get both at the same time (see the WTBS/TBS or WGN/WGN America issues).
    - If Fox chooses to continue with the "cheap Speed to reluctant american providers" for canadian audiences, which will eventually shut down at some point, they'll lose canadian carriage and will need to provide something niche to get back here.
    - If Fox chooses to provide FS1, they'll eventually have to find ways to fill schedule holes for any sport, game or show whose broadcast rights have been brought by a canadian broadcaster.

    Ah yes, there are exceptions. Planète+ from France was originally live-imported, but due to timezone differences, it was shutting down at midnight there with a logo-slate, meaning that there was nothing to watch after 6pm Montreal time on that channel. Nowadays, its France feed still starts shows at the roundup 5th minute while its Canadian feed is time-adjusted, shows start at :00 or :30th minute. But it's commercial-free and the shows are all cleared for canadian broadcast.
    Last edited by InMontreal; 07-19-2013 at 10:45 AM.
    "It's not a rerun if you haven't watched it yet." (© 2010 by TVViewer)
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  18. #38
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    An article on the SpeedTV channel's website,
    ... For Canadian viewers, the SPEED brand will remain, and the new FOX Sports coverage of Barrett-Jackson will be broadcast on the network as usual.
    that Facebook response Bell gave to a guy back in July,
    (Bell Canada) - " - just received word that Speed TV will only be re-branding in the States and will remain unchanged in Canada. Thanks for inquiring!"
    and on-line TV listings such as Zap2it.com have confirmed that Canada will continue receiving Speed after August 17, as most people had thought would be happening for the last few weeks. The latest updates to the TV listings, after initially sparking fears we would be getting nothing but endless reruns of the non-racing stuff ("R U Faster Than A Redneck", etc.), now show we will continue receiving Moto GP, Nascar Truck Series, Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series, and apparently all the other racing programming that has now moved to FS1 and FS2 in the U.S., assuming the TV listings are now correct. Some shows like Speed Center and Wind Tunnel have obviously disappeared because they are no longer produced.

    Edit: Looking through all of the first three days or so of the listings for Speed in Canada, it looks the same or perhaps slightly better than it has been for the last few months, when I think they have been purposefully playing as much of their own non-racing programming as possible before the US change-over. Some of it is still there, but now it's no longer the large majority of the schedule, and some reruns of races from earlier in the year are re-appearing. The first Saturday (Aug.17) and Sunday (18th) are as much racing as anything else. Maybe, if the plan is to continue indefinitely with this arrangement, hopefully they could eventually start showing some of the Euro/international racing that the Speed channel in Australia gets, while the game and reality shows will decrease even more or disappear.

    The Canadian BDUs have said nothing else on the subject that I'm aware of.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 08-07-2013 at 06:13 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan View Post
    Fox is not going to produce a Speed channel for Canada after they stop the American version. I don't think that would even be allowed.
    Why would it not be allowed?
    The CRTC regulations about these non-Canadian specialty channels are largely about requiring these channels to not be direct competition for Canadian channels.

    Almost none of the "non-Canadian" channels allowed into Canada are absolutely 100% identical to a channel in another country 100% of the time. And I don't know how or why anyone would think they would be mandated by the CRTC to be exactly the same. Think about it. What would possibly be the purpose for such a rule if it did exist?

    Almost all of these non-Canadian specialty channels send Canada a specifically Canadian version, with varying degrees of how different they are from the channel in another country they may be named after. And while almost all of them do happen to have a name inspired by a channel in another country, it's just the way it works out in practice, not because it is mandated by the CRTC. I suppose, in theory, someone in another country who had no connection to any TV operation there, could out of the blue decide they wanted to start a specialty TV channel to be sent to Canada, get a Canadian BDU to agree to carry and pay for it, and get the CRTC to add it to the approved list if he could convince them it would not be directly competing with a Canadian channel. But in practical reality, anyone wanting to do this is someone with at least some connection to an existing TV operation in another country with a brand name and/or programming they want to expand into Canada.

    It is only changing the programming format of the channel sent to Canada that could get it removed if it changes to be direct competition for a Canadian channel.
    If, as in the case of Speed, the channel in another country that happened to inspire the name of the channel sent to Canada, changes its name and/or programming format, it has no effect on the Canadian channel's availability in Canada, as long as what is being sent to Canada remains the same as it has been. It is an unusual situation for this to happen, but it doesn't violate any CRTC regulation. It think it might have happened once before, although I don't remember and can't find the name of the channel it might have involved.

    As for the commercials it will have, I would assume the same commercials that are now on the version of Speed they send to Canada, and probably much the same as the ones that will be on FS1 and FS2. As long as we keep paying them for the channel every month with our subscription fees, I'm guessing no one cares if the commercials on the channel relate to products, services, etc., that may not be sold Canada. They don't care now, so why would they suddenly start caring?
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 08-09-2013 at 10:23 AM.

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    Keeping the Speed brand is, I think, the best case scenario for Fox for the Canadian market.

    CRTC rules for non-canadian channels allows a non-canadian service if it doesn't compete against an existing canadian service. In other words, if the distant signal airs first-run programming whose exclusive canadian broadcast rights have been brought by a canadian service, or if canadian broadcast rights couldn't have been cleared, a blackout or alternative programming will be shown.

    That being said, if the american "cheap" Speed channel airs fillers while there's live NASCAR races on FS1 that no canadian broadcaster airs (and still within its theme), should they be forced to feed canadians with cheap fillers as well ?

    As for Fox Sports 1, the majority of its mainstream sports are owned by Sportsnet, and a small portion to TSN. So keeping Speed was the best decision, IMHO.

    Noteworthy, A&E airs marathons of CSI:Miam and Criminal Minds, but neither Shaw Media or Bell Media cries bloody murder about those syndicated runs. A&E collects subscription revenues, but cannot sell targeted advetisements to canadian audiences.

    On the french side, Planète+ for Canada is different from the Planète+ in France, mainly due to timezone differences. But it's dumb to timeshift live news channels and live sports... so I guess the canadian feed of Speed is legit...
    Last edited by InMontreal; 08-10-2013 at 04:02 PM. Reason: reformulation
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