The Michael Geist Article The CMPA, ACTRA, and WGC Don't Want You to Read!

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=InMontreal;61759]

Unfair ?
Boundaries. The original broadcaster will do whatever it can to make the show a success, will order the number of episodes to be produced, will schedule the show in an appropriate timeslot and sell advertisement at a high price... Their involvement is crucial here, but the show does not belong to them. What does belong to the broadcaster is the local/national news and whatever they produce in-house (eTalk, ET Canada, Focus).

The Canadian broadcaster doesn't simply air the show. They commissioned the show, them greenlighting the show is why it gets made, they also have creative involvement, they don't just say "produce 12 episodes and come back to us". Also, as this article points out (and judging by your comments it looks like you didn't even read it) they spend far more on Canadian programming than the actual production companies. Broadcaster money is certainly going to pay the actors, writers, ect.., my original post was an article pointing out how little these production companies actually spend on the shows they produce compared to the broadcasters and the subsides

Why would Global make money if RTS in Switzerland is airing Rookie Blue? Global did not produce the show, and Global won't pay the actors and producers for their great work (which made the show a success) with that extra money, it's unfair! They just aired the show in its originating country.

If it wasn't for the Canadian networks, the producers wouldn't have any shows to sell in the first place, and if it wasn't for the Canadian networks paying the bulk of the costs towards the show the producers wouldn't have success selling shows internationally. Canadian shows are appealing to foreign broadcasters because they can get them for way less than the Canadian network who commissioned the show.

Your "if this, then something-negative-for-the-network" song is getting repetitive.

Does the producer get a better deal selling ALL their rights exclusively to Global than selling additional rights to OTT providers ?

And this debating things you know very little about is getting old as well, but that never stopped you. The producer benefits from the way shows are sold. Which is why they aren't complaining about it. YOU are complaining about things even the CMPA isn't complaining about. The CMPA doesn't even use the same arguments as you because they actually know what they are talking about.

Also, Canadian broadcasters only own the Canadian online rights, the producers are welcome to sell U.S. online streaming rights to Netflix.

You also keep repeating the same song : ALL scripted canadian shows are a CRTC-required money-losing necessary evil, while the network makes tons of money from ALL american shows it buys, which is why 18 out of 19 hours of sun-fri primetime programming is american.

Let's see...
- The Listener was dumped by NBC after 8 episodes in 2009, but the show made the BBM Top 30 everytime and will roll out its 4th season this summer.
- Saving Hope was also dumped by NBC after 11 episodes, but not only CTV renewed the show, they ordered additional episodes.


If they're losing a loaded sh*t of money like you pretend to be the case, why would they renew the shows ?

Why aren't they dumping canadian shows to, let's say saturday 10pm when nobody watches TV, along with repetitive "depression hurts" commercials (just like on City Montreal, thanks guys!), community bulletins and public service commercials, and then cry out loud they don't make money ?

Because ALL scripted Canadian shows lose money. They are required to spend 5% of their revenue PLUS millions of dollars in CRTC benefits on scripted Canadian content each year. Shows with higher ratings lose less money than shows with lower ratings. So of course they are going to renew the shows with higher ratings, they lose less money on them. That's also why they air them in high profile time slots as opposed to Saturday, they lose less money if their show pulls in 1 million viewers on a Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday/Friday/Sunday slot than 200,000 viewers on Saturday.

The CRTC doesn't care that scripted Canadian shows are unprofitable. The fact that scripted Canadian shows lose money is not enough of a reason for the CRTC to eliminate Cancon requirements for broadcasters, and broadcasters are fine with that, they are all fine with funding money losing Canadian shows. Rogers would just like to improve the viability of Canadian shows by including international sales (which is reasonable given the facts) and I feel that Canadian producers should be putting more of their own money into the funding of Canadian shows.

[InMontreal]

The Canadian broadcaster doesn't simply air the show. They commissioned the show, them greenlighting the show is why it gets made, they also have creative involvement, they don't just say "produce 12 episodes and come back to us". Also, as this article points out (and judging by your comments it looks like you didn't even read it) they spend far more on Canadian programming than the actual production companies. Broadcaster money is certainly going to pay the actors, writers, ect.., my original post was an article pointing out how little these production companies actually spend on the shows they produce compared to the broadcasters and the subsides.

Your logic is flawed.
Off course, Seven Network in Australia is gonna spend a lot more money than international broadcasters for the shows they commissioned since they call the shots. Same story with ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, The CW, Syfy, TNT, FX, AMC, ABC Family, A&E, and so on... Canadian broadcasters didn't reinvent the wheel here.

Now, you're trying to state that since the producers get public and private funding (more likely a Bell Fund for a CTV show or a Rogers Fund for a Citytv show), something that other countries most likely doesn't have, well, the originating broadcaster should get a 100% cut on international sales.

Back in 2009, you tried to convince us, on this same forum, that BDUs couldn't live without CTV and Global and they were making money by stealing and selling their signals for free. Not only would broadcasters get money from the public for signal they broadcast for free by antenna, they'd also highjacking the shows produced by independent producers, call their own and collect all the money for any form of sales the shows get.

The problem I pointing out earlier is that any scripted show produced for CTV remains within CTV's library and will never ever get into syndication on any other independent station or network in Canada.

[Mayhem]

Not giving their competitor access to their content is not "trying to control the industry", it's acting like a business.The broadcasters make their content available on several platforms (for example Global Television, GlobalTV.com, Global Video App, Global VOD service) they shouldn't have to make it available on their competitor as well.That would be like saying "CTV and Global have more viewers than City, so City should let CTV and Global air their content to reach viewers where they are instead of trying to control the industry". Netflix has a few original series which are exclusive to Netflix, since Canadian broadcasters have more viewers should Netflix sell their content to the Canadian broadcasters to "reach viewers where they are instead of trying to control the industry?" Of course not, there is nothing wrong with Netflix keeping their original series exclusive to Netflix just like there is nothing wrong with Canadian networks keeping their content exclusive to their platforms. It might benefit them if Netflix was willing to pay as much for Canadian shows as they do for the U.S. content they purchase but that's not the case, so it doesn't make sense for the Canadian networks to hurt the platforms they own (on demand, website, mobile) just so people can watch their shows on their competitor. This also has nothing to do with vertical integration. CTVglobemedia, Canwest, and CHUM wouldn't want people watching their content on Netflix instead of their network/website/app/vod service either.

I don't think you understand that Netflix is more of a comparable competition to specialty channels like TMN, HBO, Showcase, Bravo, etc than a competition to CTV, Global or City. When specialty channels started growing in the 80's an 90's it gave people options to watch channels dedicated to watching old show like TVtropolis, watching un-cut and commercial free programing from TMN/HBO; but it didn't end up killing CTV, Global or City. Netflix is specialty channel 2.0, an on-demand, not tied to any BDU service that does the same thing as TVtroplis and TMN/HBO, that's why Bell and Rogers are scared of, because for the first time every, BDU service like cable and satellite could end up the way of vinyl records and tape decks.

As for Netflix not selling its original content to Canadian broadcasters; why would you want to sell your original content to someone who is using the CRTC to force you out of business altogether? It would be me suing you for a million dollars and still asking if we can still be friends.

[PokerFace]

Will Canadian content always be a losing proposition for Bell, Shaw and Rogers, even if they negotiated a better deal (without the need to pay for a super-licence fee)?

Would Shaw Media have continued with Bomb Girls if they had a cut from the international sales? And if having a cut of the international sales means that the less popular Canadian content still gets picked up for multiple seasons, isn't that a bad thing for the Canadian viewer?

Do you really want a third season of Bomb Girls? Are we getting a second season of Seed?

Murdoch Mysteries was dumped, but then picked up by the CBC. Sometimes it's very hard to kill off Cancon.

The way it stands now, the Canadian viewers usually have more of a say as to what gets renewed, but if the broadcasters get a better Cancon international deal, stuff like Bomb Girls and Seed might last longer than the audience wants them to.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=InMontreal;61770]

Your logic is flawed.
Off course, Seven Network in Australia is gonna spend a lot more money than international broadcasters for the shows they commissioned since they call the shots. Same story with ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, The CW, Syfy, TNT, FX, AMC, ABC Family, A&E, and so on... Canadian broadcasters didn't reinvent the wheel here.

Now, you're trying to state that since the producers get public and private funding (more likely a Bell Fund for a CTV show or a Rogers Fund for a Citytv show), something that other countries most likely doesn't have, well, the originating broadcaster should get a 100% cut on international sales.

But the difference is the U.S. networks don't lose money on the shows they commission, and usually they are owned by the same studio. You can't compare what happens here to what happens in the U.S.because the rules are different here. Here Canadian shows lose money for the networks who commission them, here broadcasters are required to buy from independent producers, it's not like that in the U.S.

Also, I never said broadcasters should get all the money from international sales. I said broadcasters deserve some of the revenue. I feel there is something wrong when the broadcasters who commission the show lose millions of dollars paying the bulk of the costs while the producers go and turn a profit selling the exact show to international broadcasters. The Canadian broadcaster plays a major role in getting that show sold internationally. If they didn't commission the shows they wouldn't exist, if they didn't pay such high licence fees the producers wouldn't have success selling them, and not only that but how a show performs on the Canadian network is a factor as well. They deserve some of the profits.

Back in 2009, you tried to convince us, on this same forum, that BDUs couldn't live without CTV and Global and they were making money by stealing and selling their signals for free. Not only would broadcasters get money from the public for signal they broadcast for free by antenna, they'd also highjacking the shows produced by independent producers, call their own and collect all the money for any form of sales the shows get.

Independent producers would deserve nothing if Value for Signal was implemented, as they are already getting paid by the broadcasters. When you buy something you own it, Canadian broadcasters purchased the Canadian broadcast rights to these shows, they own the rights. It would be like if someone paid you to build their house, you wouldn't own the house you built, the person who paid you to build their house would own it.

The problem I pointing out earlier is that any scripted show produced for CTV remains within CTV's library and will never ever get into syndication on any other independent station or network in Canada.

But as I said several times already, the producers would NOT BENEFIT from syndication rights being sold separately. A show with unlimited episode plays is worth A LOT more than a show with one episode play. The vast majority of Canadian shows wouldn't make it to syndication anyway, and the very few shows that did would go for very low prices. Meanwhile, to make up for not being able to air shows as many times as they want Canadian broadcasters would spend WAY less on Canadian programming and buy WAY less Canadian shows. This is why the CMPA isn't asking to sell repeat/syndication rights separately, they know that if that was the case they would lose big time. Unlike you they know the economic reality of Canadian programming and they know they benefit tremendously with the way they sell shows to Canadian networks, the broadcasters are at a far greater disadvantage when it comes to Canadian programming and the producers know it.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=Mayhem;61781]

I don't think you understand that Netflix is more of a comparable competition to specialty channels like TMN, HBO, Showcase, Bravo, etc than a competition to CTV, Global or City. When specialty channels started growing in the 80's an 90's it gave people options to watch channels dedicated to watching old show like TVtropolis, watching un-cut and commercial free programing from TMN/HBO; but it didn't end up killing CTV, Global or City. Netflix is specialty channel 2.0, an on-demand, not tied to any BDU service that does the same thing as TVtroplis and TMN/HBO, that's why Bell and Rogers are scared of, because for the first time every, BDU service like cable and satellite could end up the way of vinyl records and tape decks.

No, Netflix is a competitor. It's not good for CTV, Global, or City if you are watching the show on Netflix instead of their television network, on demand service, website, or video app.

As for Netflix not selling its original content to Canadian broadcasters; why would you want to sell your original content to someone who is using the CRTC to force you out of business altogether? It would be me suing you for a million dollars and still asking if we can still be friends.

Although a valid point it's not the reason. Netflix is keeping their original content exclusive to Netflix because they want it to be exclusive to Netflix. In fact, Netflix is keeping a lot of the content they buy exclusive to Netflix. I'm not complaining about Netflix keeping their content exclusive, i'm just pointing out how ridiculous InMontreal's complaints are. He is complaining about Canadian broadcasters not putting their content on Netflix when Netflix keeps their original programs exclusive. Canadian broadcasters are putting their original shows for free on a number of platforms while Netflix is keeping their content exclusive to their paid subscribers and keeping it off the television platform, yet he's complaining about the Canadian broadcasters? Of course he is, that's what he does but still, pretty ridiculous.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=PokerFace;61784]

if having a cut of the international sales means that the less popular Canadian content still gets picked up for multiple seasons, isn't that a bad thing for the Canadian viewer?

Are we getting a second season of Seed?

The way it stands now, the Canadian viewers usually have more of a say as to what gets renewed, but if the broadcasters get a better Cancon international deal, stuff like Bomb Girls and Seed might last longer than the audience wants them to

It wouldn't mean that because low rated shows typically don't have much success with international sales. The producers of Seed and Package Deal for example tried and failed to sell them to U.S. broadcasters before they premiered on City. Had Seed debuted with great ratings on City they would have been able to go back to the U.S. networks (like FX for example) and go "look how well this did on City". With Seed now pulling in 184,000 viewers on City it's going to be pretty hard to convince a U.S. cable network to pick it up. So no, giving broadcasters a share of the revenue for international sales wouldn't mean low rated shows would stay on the air longer because they would be able to make more money selling a hit show than a show doing poorly in the ratings. Canadians would still have a say because ratings would drive international sales.

Murdoch Mysteries was dumped, but then picked up by the CBC. Sometimes it's very hard to kill off Cancon.

I have never seen a single minute of Murdoch Mysteries but City has to be regretting their decision to cancel the series. Not only is it pulling in over 1 million viewers on CBC (some weeks pulling in more viewers than any City show) but repeats of the show on City are pulling in double the audience of new episodes of Seed (which is remarkable given how many times City airs Murdoch Mystery repeats) When it was first cancelled someone on here called the show a "failure", well no it was never a failure and now it's one of the most successful scripted Canadian shows on TV. It should not have been cancelled in the first place.

[PokerFace]

Okay, at this point in the discussion, it does appear that a super-licence fee is not a fair way to distribute the international profits ... and I'm not sure how often it even makes sense to take advantage of such a thing.

Vertical integration has nothing to do with this particular topic, but it was brought up to hopefully keep the Canadian broadcasters from getting their fair share of the international profits.

I hate siding with the broadcasters, but since our Canadian content rules give producers the opportunity to peddle inferior content, as well as growing the brand of superior content, I have to now agree with TVViewer's rant. However, I will admit that I still enjoy watching the broadcasters get the short end of this particular stick.

[Mayhem]

No, Netflix is a competitor. It's not good for CTV, Global, or City if you are watching the show on Netflix instead of their television network, on demand service, website, or video app.

A majority of their library is canceled/discounted series and movies you can pickup in Wal-Mart or watch on specialty channels like TVtropolis, and their original content is something you couldn't air on CTV, Global or City.

Netflix is keeping their original content exclusive to Netflix because they want it to be exclusive to Netflix. In fact, Netflix is keeping a lot of the content they buy
exclusive to Netflix. I'm not complaining about Netflix keeping their content exclusive.

Maybe they offered? Maybe they where turned down? At this point Netflix has four original series:

• House of Cards
• Hemlock Grove
• Lilyhammer
• Arrested Development (may be only one season)

All these series are commercial free, and some contain adult content. The only place that could air them would be TMN/MC HBO, and with series like Games of Throns, Bordwalk Empire, The Newsroom, Dexter, Veep, Vice and Real Time with Bill Maher why would Bell or Cours want to invest into those pitiful shows? They already have access to the best programming already; makes you wounder what the threat of Netflix is?

I have never seen a single minute of Murdoch Mysteries but City has to be regretting their decision to cancel the series.

I distinctly remembering you mentioning that you've watch Murdoch Mysteries before.

Not only is it pulling in over 1 million viewers on CBC (some weeks pulling in more viewers than any City show) but repeats of the show on City are pulling in double the audience of new episodes of Seed (which is remarkable given how many times City airs Murdoch Mystery repeats) When it was first cancelled someone on here called the show a "failure", well no it was never a failure and now it's one of the most successful scripted Canadian shows on TV. It should not have been cancelled in the first place.

Murdoch Mysteries repeates, from what I've been told, are there for Rogers to meet its Cancon quota on City until they release Package Deal and have more episodes of Seed to replace it. However Murdoch Mysteries always seemed like a odd fit for City, and with its bouncing around the schedule and limited reach of City network and Rogers saying they where going to focus more on urban, comedy programming it was obvious by season four that Rogers was going to dump it. Just too bad that not many series like Murdoch get a second chance at life.

Vertical integration has nothing to do with this particular topic, but it was brought up to hopefully keep the Canadian broadcasters from getting their fair share of the international profits.

Production would be part of vertical integration.

[PokerFace]

Production is often part of the "You must air Canadian content" doctrine imposed by the CRTC. Hey, even if it's crap, Canada will most likely buy it. No worries.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=Mayhem;61834]

A majority of their library is canceled/discounted series and movies you can pickup in Wal-Mart or watch on specialty channels like TVtropolis, and their original content is something you couldn't air on CTV, Global or City.

That doesn't change the fact that if you watch a certain show on Netflix you are not watching it on the broadcasters website, video app, or on demand service. Netflix may not be a strong competitor but they are a competitor.

Maybe they offered? Maybe they where turned down? At this point Netflix has four original series:

• House of Cards
• Hemlock Grove
• Lilyhammer
• Arrested Development (may be only one season)

All these series are commercial free, and some contain adult content. The only place that could air them would be TMN/MC HBO, and with series like Games of Throns, Bordwalk Empire, The Newsroom, Dexter, Veep, Vice and Real Time with Bill Maher why would Bell or Cours want to invest into those pitiful shows? They already have access to the best programming already; makes you wounder what the threat of Netflix is?

Netflix is big enough and has enough worldwide subscribers to keep their content exclusive to Netflix. The point of them commissioning original content and buying exclusive rights is to drive people to subscribe to their service, allowing Canadian broadcasters to air that content would defeat the purpose. It's not good for Shaw, Bell, and Rogers to keep their content exclusive because their content is advertising supported and they want to reach as many people as possible. Netflix content is not advertising supported and their goal is to gain subscribers, so they have little incentive to share their content and a lot of incentive to keep their content exclusive. It's no coincidence that the only television networks airing Netflix original series operate in countries where Netflix doesn't exist. It's exclusive to Netflix because it makes business sense for Netflix

I distinctly remembering you mentioning that you've watch Murdoch Mysteries before.

Nope, never watched. I have however been aware of the ratings for the show so was supportive and argued for CBC picking up the series before they did, that's probably why you assumed I watched the show.

Murdoch Mysteries repeates, from what I've been told, are there for Rogers to meet its Cancon quota on City until they release Package Deal and have more episodes of Seed to replace it. However Murdoch Mysteries always seemed like a odd fit for City, and with its bouncing around the schedule and limited reach of City network and Rogers saying they where going to focus more on urban, comedy programming it was obvious by season four that Rogers was going to dump it.

That may have been the original plan, but given the horrible ratings it's unlikely Seed will see a second season, and as for Package Deal, they couldn't have scheduled this is a more worse way if they tried. It will be airing directly against CTV's new Canadian comedy which has a stronger lead-in (new episodes of Mondays #1 8:00PM comedy on CTV vs repeats of Mondays #2 8:00PM comedy on City) on a far more established network (CTV and Global are simply more established than City in most markets and the result is their programming pulls in more viewers despite City having the exact same coverage). Launching a new Canadian comedy is hard enough as it is, I don't see how Rogers thinks City can take on CTV like this and win, they even changed the premiere date so they would premiere the same night.

So, given that, it looks like it will be a long time before Murdoch Mysteries is gone from City. City Vancouver for example currently airs 14 repeats of Murdoch Mysteries A WEEK.

Just too bad that not many series like Murdoch get a second chance at life.

Murdoch Mysteries got a second chance at life because it didn't deserve to be cancelled. It wasn't a failure, it was a strong performer. The problem was City wanted to do comedy and they didn't want to spend the money to do both, they cancelled a successful drama to take a risk with two comedies, which is fine, nothing wrong with them wanting to do comedy but that's why Murodch Mysteries was saved. Few Canadian shows get a second chance at life because most networks don't cancel successful Canadian shows.

Production would be part of vertical integration.

The regulations regarding Canadian programming were here before VI.

[InMontreal]

The point of them commissioning original content and buying exclusive rights is to drive people to subscribe to their service, allowing Canadian broadcasters to air that content would defeat the purpose.

Wait, now you're complaining about Netflix picking up exclusive broadcast rights to shows that canadian broadcasters decided to give up or ignore ?

Best example, 90210, the first 3 years aired on Global, with a few specialty reruns on Showcase Diva. Then *poof*, gone, and I remember, you were glad the show was gone from Global.
You always laugh out loud at CHCH picking up low-rated shows that you qualify "nobody wants", yet, you complain about that Netflix gaining broadcast rights to those same shows.
Oh, you're not the only one complaining, I am too. Showcase under Alliance-Atlantis used to have a great 10pm lineup, every night, sunday to friday, and some nights with an 11pm show. Since Canwest ownership, only 2 or 3 nights have a 10pm show for 13 weeks, then it's back to endless NCIS fillers... they just gave up and turned Showcase into a second-rate rerun channel...
Back to my point, there was a LOT of cable shows that Showcase was proposing, there's still an equivalent quantity or more content available out there, but Shaw Media simply decided to ignore everything else. Now you have the nerve to complain Netflix is taking shows away from canadian broadcasters ! C'mon !

[TVViewer]

Wait, now you're complaining about Netflix picking up exclusive broadcast rights to shows that canadian broadcasters decided to give up or ignore ?

No, i'm not complaining about Netflix keeping the content they buy exclusive. YOU are the one complaining about Canadian broadcasters not putting their content on Netflix while at the same time ignoring the fact that Netflix keeps their content exclusive to Netflix. The only reason i'm stating the fact that Netflix keeps their content exclusive is to point out how ridiculous your complaints are. I have no problem with Netflix keeping their content exclusive, you are the one who complains about exclusivity, not me.

[Mayhem]

That doesn't change the fact that if you watch a certain show on Netflix you are not watching it on the broadcasters website, video app, or on demand service. Netflix may not be a strong competitor but they are a competitor.

A majority of Netflix programming are series that have since been removed from broadcasters websites, video apps or VOD services. Netflix gets new episodes of Mad Men and The Walking Dead after they're pulled from BDU's on-demand service. My whole point was that if your going to draw comparison of Netflix with a broadcaster, it has to be a equal comparison, Neflix would be closer categorized as a "pay-TV" service like TMN/MC HBO with its original programming than being a compared to a conventional television station like CTV, Global or City.

The point of them commissioning original content and buying exclusive rights is to drive people to subscribe to their service, allowing Canadian broadcasters to air that content would defeat the purpose. It's not good for Shaw, Bell, and Rogers to keep their content exclusive because their content is advertising supported and they want to reach as many people as possible.Netflix content is not advertising supported and their goal is to gain subscribers, so they have little incentive to share their content and a lot of incentive to keep their content exclusive. It's no coincidence that the only television networks airing Netflix original series operate in countries where Netflix doesn't exist. It's exclusive to Netflix because it makes business sense for Netflix

I understand the idea of exclusive programming, but when your a Oligopoly (quasi-monopoly) that are three largest communication companies in Canada, that own three of the largest conventional broadcast networks in Canada, along with the largest holdings in specialty and pay-TV channels in Canada; they should have to give up some privileges. I'm willing to pay $17.99 a/month for TMN/HBO exclusive programming, but I don't want to waste my money to buy a basic BDU package, or Bell ISP package, or a Bell Smartphone package in order for me to get access TMN/HBO. It should be like Netflix, I should be able to access it from any ISP services, any Smartphone provider, any Smart TV or Smart Device. This is what makes Netflix popular with its subscribers, and is something that Shaw, Bell and Rogers can emulate easily to compete and even overtake Netflix. But when they go and cry to the CRTC or pull dirty tricks of applying data caps in lure that it will deter people from watching over-the-top services like Netflix only enforces the hate and disgust people have for these companies, and should they fail and Netflix win, it will only because they didn't adapt to the changing environment around them.

Nope, never watched. I have however been aware of the ratings for the show so was supportive and argued for CBC picking up the series before they did, that's probably why you assumed I watched the show.

I swear you've mention you enjoyed watching it before. I only remember because you it was the very rare occurrence you talked about an non-news related program that you had a opinion over.

and as for Package Deal, they couldn't have scheduled this is a more worse way if they tried. It will be airing directly against CTV's new Canadian comedy which has a stronger lead-in (new episodes of Mondays #1 8:00PM comedy on CTV vs repeats of Mondays #2 8:00PM comedy on City) on a far more established network (CTV and Global are simply more established than City in most markets and the result is their programming pulls in more viewers despite City having the exact same coverage). Launching a new Canadian comedy is hard enough as it is, I don't see how Rogers thinks City can take on CTV like this and win, they even changed the premiere date so they would premiere the same night.

Although I'll give you credit that CTV has Anger Management at 8PM, which isn't they're strongest for them and they're hiatus will only extend the show a few more weeks before its season is over; but reading both The Package Deal and Satisfaction plot summaries I'm going to say its too early to call who will come out first. Both shows premise are bland, but could pull off a winner if the writers can make the characters likable enough to carry the story.

So, given that, it looks like it will be a long time before Murdoch Mysteries is gone from City. City Vancouver for example currently airs 14 repeats of Murdoch Mysteries A WEEK.

Note too that the majority of them air during the 6PM time slot.

Murdoch Mysteries got a second chance at life because it didn't deserve to be cancelled. It wasn't a failure, it was a strong performer. The problem was City wanted to do comedy and they didn't want to spend the money to do both, they cancelled a successful drama to take a risk with two comedies, which is fine, nothing wrong with them wanting to do comedy but that's why Murodch Mysteries was saved. Few Canadian shows get a second chance at life because most networks don't cancel successful Canadian shows.

I was hinting at Bomb Girls, new network and new time could reboot the series. And Murdoch was only a failure on City because of its random placements on the scheduled and long hiatus in-between seasons.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=Mayhem;61886]

A majority of Netflix programming are series that have since been removed from broadcasters websites, video apps or VOD services. Netflix gets new episodes of Mad Men and The Walking Dead after they're pulled from BDU's on-demand service. My whole point was that if your going to draw comparison of Netflix with a broadcaster, it has to be a equal comparison, Neflix would be closer categorized as a "pay-TV" service like TMN/MC HBO with its original programming than being a compared to a conventional television station like CTV, Global or City.

All i'm saying is Netflix is a competitor. That's why their shows aren't on Netflix. You don't have to be "equal" to be a competitor.

I understand the idea of exclusive programming, but when your a Oligopoly (quasi-monopoly) that are three largest communication companies in Canada, that own three of the largest conventional broadcast networks in Canada, along with the largest holdings in specialty and pay-TV channels in Canada; they should have to give up some privileges. I'm willing to pay $17.99 a/month for TMN/HBO exclusive programming, but I don't want to waste my money to buy a basic BDU package, or Bell ISP package, or a Bell Smartphone package in order for me to get access TMN/HBO. It should be like Netflix, I should be able to access it from any ISP services, any Smartphone provider, any Smart TV or Smart Device. This is what makes Netflix popular with its subscribers, and is something that Shaw, Bell and Rogers can emulate easily to compete and even overtake Netflix. But when they go and cry to the CRTC or pull dirty tricks of applying data caps in lure that it will deter people from watching over-the-top services like Netflix only enforces the hate and disgust people have for these companies, and should they fail and Netflix win, it will only because they didn't adapt to the changing environment around them.

I only brought up the fact that Netflix keeps programming exclusive to point out how ridiculous InMontreal is for complaining about broadcasters not putting their shows on Netflix while Netflix keeps everything they want exclusive. That's all.

I swear you've mention you enjoyed watching it before. I only remember because you it was the very rare occurrence you talked about an non-news related program that you had a opinion over.

Nope. I was supportive of the show from a ratings standpoint and argued for why CBC should pick up the series based on its ratings as I had a hard time convincing people on here that it would be a good idea for CBC to pick up the series. Perhaps you read an article I posted and assumed it was my opinion.

Although I'll give you credit that CTV has Anger Management at 8PM, which isn't they're strongest for them and they're hiatus will only extend the show a few more weeks before its season is over;

It's not CTV's strongest comedy but it outperforms new episodes of HIMYM and it wont have any hiatus, it will be airing all new episodes all summer (the 100 episode order allows FX and CTV to run it all new year round).

but reading both The Package Deal and Satisfaction plot summaries I'm going to say its too early to call who will come out first.

I'm not basing my prediction on how good the shows are, i'm basing it on the fact that CTV has a better lead-in and is the far more established network outside of Toronto. Citytv may have the same coverage as CTV and Global in Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton but the reality is far less people watch the station. They are simply not at a level playing field when it comes to launching a new Canadian series and the fact that CTV will have a far stronger lead-in puts the odds even more in CTV's favor. The fact that they are premiering on the same night in the same time slot means people wont sample both comedies, they will watch one or the other and Package Deal is at a disadvantages for the simple fact that it's on City. Citytv's low audience share for non-simulcast programming outside of Toronto can't be overlooked. It’s not impossible for it to win, but it would be really shocking if that happened and very embarrassing for CTV. Losing to U.S. show in simulcast on Citytv is one thing but to lose to their original series when they are more established and have a stronger lead-in would be really bad for CTV.

Both shows premise are bland, but could pull off a winner if the writers can make the characters likable enough to carry the story.

Although I think more people will tune into Satisfaction than Package Deal, I don't see either comedy being a winner due to the fact that they are scheduled directly against each other. Launching a successful Canadian comedy is very hard and to launch it directly against another Canadian comedy is not good for either show. But like I said CTV has the advantage. City is simply not in a position where they can schedule their Canadian comedy directly against CTV and have the same shot at winning, they are not in a position where they can schedule their Canadian shows while disregarding what the more established networks (CTV & Global) are airing in the time slot (unless they give the Canadian show a good lead-in, but they aren't doing so in this case). When CTV announced that Satisfaction would air Mondays at 8:30PM they should have re-scheduled Package Deal to a new time slot (their #1 show (AGT) airs Tuesdays at 9:00PM & Wednesdays at 9:00PM, so a pre AGT slot like Wednesdays at 8:30PM is something they should look at) instead they went out of their way to change the premiere date for Package Deal so both shows would premiere on the same night. It's one thing to make unrealistic comments in the press (like how they said by the end of this fall season they would beat Global and take on CTV for #1) but it's a another thing to schedule unrealistically and go out of your way to schedule your Canadian comedy against another Canadian comedy on a stronger network with a stronger lead-in and expecting success. It would be like them scheduling Mother Up against The Simpsons or another one of the FOX animated comedies this fall.

Note too that the majority of them air during the 6PM time slot.

Yes, not all the airings are in primetime (the fact that they are airing ANY repeats of a CBC show in primetime is shocking enough) but i'm just saying it's hard to see how it will be leaving the City schedule anytime soon given how much they are relying on it for cancon filler. I'm sure they will begin airing the comedies (which BTW, is why Mother Up wont be an R-rated "adult" comedy) but it will take time before they have enough episodes to replace the show entirely.

I was hinting at Bomb Girls, new network and new time could reboot the series. And Murdoch was only a failure on City because of its random placements on the scheduled and long hiatus in-between seasons.

The shows were cancelled for different reasons. Global cancelled the series because of ratings, they sandwiched it between two of their biggest dramas and it lost a huge chunk of its lead-in and lead-out. They gave it Monday's #1 show as a lead-in and Global went from 1st place at 8:00PM to 5th place at 9:00PM. Pulling in around 500,000 viewers is one thing, but when you are pulling 500,000 - 600,000 viewers with a 1.5 million lead-in and lead-out it's not good for renewal. The ratings for Murdoch Mysteries were strong, Rogers just wanted to do comedy. It was not a failure from a ratings standpoint given the network it was on.

[Mayhem]

All i'm saying is Netflix is a competitor. That's why their shows aren't on Netflix. You don't have to be "equal" to be a competitor.

I'm comparing what Netflix original programming would be consider a equal competitor to in the broadcasting world.

6:30am posting? I hope I didn't keep you up all night.

I only brought up the fact that Netflix keeps programming exclusive to point out how ridiculous InMontreal is for complaining about broadcasters not putting their shows on Netflix while Netflix keeps everything they want exclusive. That's all.

I agree with the theory of broadcasters wanting to keep programming exclusive and wanting more ownership over original programming. But when your a very large conglomerate who owns every aspect of communications in Canada, you have to give up some rights to show that your not going to be an abusive power.

It's not CTV's strongest comedy but it outperforms new episodes of HIMYM and it wont have any hiatus, it will be airing all new episodes all summer (the 100 episode order allows FX and CTV to run it all new year round).

We both know the only reason people watch Anger Management is to see if Charlie Sheen will have another public melt-down.

I'm not basing my prediction on how good the shows are, i'm basing it on the fact that CTV has a better lead-in and is the far more established network outside of Toronto. Citytv may have the same coverage as CTV and Global in Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton but the reality is far less people watch the station.

Although I think more people will tune into Satisfaction than Package Deal, I don't see either comedy being a winner due to the fact that they are scheduled directly against each other. Launching a successful Canadian comedy is very hard and to launch it directly against another Canadian comedy is not good for either show. But like I said CTV has the advantage.

I'm basing the fact that both shows are equally bland. CTV may win the first night, but by the end of the season they'll both be losers.

Yes, not all the airings are in primetime (the fact that they are airing ANY repeats of a CBC show in primetime is shocking enough) but i'm just saying it's hard to see how it will be leaving the City schedule anytime soon given how much they are relying on it for cancon filler. I'm sure they will begin airing the comedies (which BTW, is why Mother Up wont be an R-rated "adult" comedy) but it will take time before they have enough episodes to replace the show entirely.

No doubt it will be awhile until they shuffle off Murdoch Mysteries with other cancon filler. Mother Up is going to be rated PG-13 in Canada while the R rating is for U.S. audiences, a country who some think that The Diary of Ann Frank is too 'pronographic' and the most 'uncomfortable' part of the whole book.

The shows were cancelled for different reasons. Global cancelled the series because of ratings, they sandwiched it between two of their biggest dramas and it lost a huge chunk of its lead-in and lead-out. They gave it Monday's #1 show as a lead-in and Global went from 1st place at 8:00PM to 5th place at 9:00PM. Pulling in around 500,000 viewers is one thing, but when you are pulling 500,000 - 600,000 viewers with a 1.5 million lead-in and lead-out it's not good for renewal. The ratings for Murdoch Mysteries were strong, Rogers just wanted to do comedy. It was not a failure from a ratings standpoint given the network it was on.

Viewers complained that Shaw/Global didn't advertise the show outside the network properly. Most CTV programming get the billboard, radio, print, Internet, television advertising treatment every season to the point its burned into the back of your eyelids. Shaw seem to stop promoting the series after the second season outside any Shaw Media property.

[InMontreal]

All i'm saying is Netflix is a competitor. That's why their shows aren't on Netflix. You don't have to be "equal" to be a competitor.

Please, explain this to me.

- Shows airing on CTV, Global and Citytv are available on iTunes, an american service which doesn't contribute to the canadian broadcast system. We can see that Global and Citytv have their own section http://twitter.com/jfmezei/status/33...003138/photo/1 , and we learned last week during CRTC hearings that past episodes of CTV's Flashpoint are also on the platform.
- Just like iTunes, Netflix is an american sercice with a canadian department, but... it's a competitor, we blame them for not contributing to the canadian broadcast system and broadcasters complains to the CRTC that they should be regulated, etc.

So, why is iTunes a friend and Netflix a foe ? They offer the same OTT service with different pricing schemes.

[PokerFace]

Netflix buys exclusive Canadian rights for content and thus competes directly with our Canadian buyers. What does iTunes do, other than offer an expensive way to keep up with missed TV episodes?

Netflix is thought of as a TV network, and since it's less than $10, it's an affordable alternative for cord cutters.

[TVViewer]

Netflix buys exclusive Canadian rights for content and thus competes directly with our Canadian buyers. What does iTunes do, other than offer an expensive way to keep up with missed TV episodes?
.

Exactly, look at their pricing models. It should be pretty obvious that putting shows on iTunes is far more lucrative to a broadcaster than Netflix.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=Mayhem;62013]

I agree with the theory of broadcasters wanting to keep programming exclusive and wanting more ownership over original programming. But when your a very large conglomerate who owns every aspect of communications in Canada, you have to give up some rights to show that your not going to be an abusive power.

I do agree there should be some regulation, but right now there are far too many VI rules which unfairly punish BDU's for buying broadcasters. I don't agree with the "This rule is unfair for them but they are vertically integrated so who cares" opinion you seem to have.

We both know the only reason people watch Anger Management is to see if Charlie Sheen will have another public melt-down.


I'm basing the fact that both shows are equally bland. CTV may win the first night, but by the end of the season they'll both be losers.

I think the odds are against either doing well. It's really, really, hard to launch a hit Canadian comedy. Just that when it comes to getting sampled, the show on CTV will have an advantage over the City show when you take into consideration the lead-in and CTV's position in the market (CTV has since changed their schedule so it will air at 8:00PM so they will no longer air directly against each other) But again it's so very hard to find success with Canadian comedies, Global has a better shot in the time slot with a US cable drama.

Viewers complained that Shaw/Global didn't advertise the show outside the network properly. Most CTV programming get the billboard, radio, print, Internet, television advertising treatment every season to the point its burned into the back of your eyelids. Shaw seem to stop promoting the series after the second season outside any Shaw Media property.

Fans of the show will always blame the network when the show is cancelled. The time slot change was promoted for weeks and it was not only highly advertised on Global and Canada's most watched specialty channels (History, HGTV, Food Network, ect.) but it received more promotion than any Global show. In addition to that, it was given a massive drama lead-in and a massive drama lead-out. It also did receive off air promotion (it's not realistic to give a show in the middle of its second season a massive off air campaign) Whenever a show is cancelled fans of the show (or people who are associated with the show) will always make excuses for why viewers didn't tune in and it's very rare when the excuses are realistic, this is no exception as the on-air advertising campaign was massive and the time slot was great. Global went above and beyond to get people to tune in and unfortunately viewers tuned into another network, fortunately for the loyal fans of the show Global loves the show enough to do a 2 hour finale wrapping up all the storyline.