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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerFace View Post
    "So highly rated in other markets," or simply highly successful --> at least according to the self-serving Rogers press release:

    http://www.rogersmediatv.ca/pr_detail.php?id=817
    If they think barely registering in the ratings is "highly successful" then they can go right ahead and say it in the press release. But Steve the blogger is flat out wrong to say that these shows are highly rated. BT is highly rated in Toronto. It does horrible in the other markets. If you watch the Toronto BT then yes I can see why you would get the impression that BT would be like that in other markets, and he probably assumes that if Breakfast Television wasn't successful it wouldn't exist in the other markets but the ratings prove otherwise. If getting between a 0.2-0.4 rating is what Steve considers "highly rated" then he should start calling Global Montreal's Evening News highly rated as well.

    Why does BT exist if it's not successful in these markets? Because it's the cheapest way for Rogers to operate local stations in these markets without the unions getting the CRTC involved, success has nothing to do with it. Breakfast Television became City's only local program in these markets because CHUM realized it was cheaper than producing evening, late night, and weekend newscasts and its length allows the station to fulfill the minimum local programming requirements. Breakfast Television is not a news heavy program so they don't need to employ as many journalists as they would for an evening newscast and they can hire people who don't command a high salary. It's the cheapest way for them to run a station producing local news while meeting the requirements, that's why it exists.

    EDIT: Steve has corrected his mistake.

    The forum's lunatic, musimax has responded below with a bunch of accusations towards me. For anyone new here, keep in mind that musimax is mentally insane. He has developed this bizarre obsessive hatred towards me and has somehow convinced himself that everything I say is a lie. NOTHING this lunatic says about me is even remotely true. He will say everything I say is a lie and he will make up what my opinions are. If you want to know what my opinions are then read my posts, disregard whatever this crazy person says. All the facts he is saying i'm "making up" are well known to anyone with knowledge of the industry (including the budget for City Montreal, as Rogers had to include it in their CRTC submission). There are other members here with knowledge of the industry and even members who work for Rogers who would be very quick to point out my info was "incorrect" if that was the case. Take anything musimax says the same way you would from that crazy drugged out homeless person downtown.
    Musimax is one of those with a computer
    Last edited by TVViewer; 07-08-2013 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Producing news is expensive and Global Montreal is certainly not doing the bare minimum, there is room for them to made additional cost cutting measures through layoffs and program cancellations while still meeting their licence requirements. I'm not saying they are making huge investements at the station but I do commend them for not doing as little as Rogers (only a morning show plus 2 low cost half hour weekly programs) despite the financial challenges of the station.
    You're full of contradictions. You were strongly against Rogers acquiring CJNT and turning it into an english station, claiming the Montreal-english market is too small, and if Global didn't succeed, no one else can. Now that Rogers owns it, you blame them for doing the bare minimum, expecting them to run full newscasts and compete against CTV and Global, on their 1st year... because if Global loses money, Rogers should lose some too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    And FYI Focus Montreal airs Saturdays at 5:30PM as a lead-in to the Evening News.
    Saturday June 22, 2013
    2:30 PM - The Simpsons "A Star Is Born Again" TV-PG
    3:00 PM - PGA Tour Golf "Travelers Championship, Third Round" LIVEHD
    6:00 PM - Evening News NEW
    6:30 PM - Global National NEW

    Ahuh... more like a place-holder.
    Focus Montreal is the only local non-news show produced by Global Montreal, and it's produced in the same "news desk with a green screen" set. Heck, Global never shoots anything outside its studios when it's not news or weather with Jessica in the morning.

    Gotta give credit to City Montreal for producing local television outside local news. Global Montreal is just a Toronto station with local news replaced.

    Extra : Picture from CTV Montreal upfront : http://twitter.com/fagstein/status/3...250880/photo/1

    1.5 % for Global. Yes, you can !
    Last edited by InMontreal; 06-15-2013 at 10:56 AM.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    You're full of contradictions. You were strongly against Rogers acquiring CJNT and turning it into an english station, claiming the Montreal-english market is too small, and if Global didn't succeed, no one else can. Now that Rogers owns it, you blame them for doing the bare minimum, expecting them to run full newscasts and compete against CTV and Global, on their 1st year... because if Global loses money, Rogers should lose some too.
    Of course he is, he is defending Shaw and changing his opinions when it suits his argument at the time.

    And to TVViewer's various responses here, I'm not here to defend Steve Faguy, if he wants to come on here and do, so be it. But he made a half mistake here. Half being BT is very successful in Toronto, the other markets, maybe not so much. I don't know the exact number of viewers, but I would love to see the number of viewers broken down by market and their competitors, and actually see a link of it, not just some random numbers TVViewer pulls out of his ass. But, regardless, it is successful in Toronto and they are bringing the format to Montreal, and it very well could be a success there to like it is in Toronto, who knows. Their odds could be good, they don't really have any competition, since Global's is such a disaster I wouldn't even count it, and the remaining are national morning shows from CTV and CBC.

    And I stand by my point that Steve Faguay is a quality journalist (not just a blogger). TVViewer pulls one little remark of a half-mistake out of the other great stuff he's written. I would love to see TVViewer write an article, it would be full of lies and changing opinions to suit his argument at the time and biases as he does on here all the time.

    And to their point of investing a little or a lot, I would presume Steve Faguay is talking about investing in BT, not so much the station overall. That seems to be my take from his post. I agree, they may not be investing as much into local programming in general throughout their entire daily schedule like others with evening, noon, and late night newscasts, but maybe they are actually investing a good amount in BT to make it a worthwhile show that people will want to watch and make money for them. I don't know if they are or not, but it could be a possibility. Does TVViewer have those numbers? He likes to say with confidence and fact that BT will be understaffed and underfunded, but does he have any proof of this whatsoever or is he pulling these "facts" out of his ass like usual to suit his argument? I would side with the latter. And, they do have other shows other than just BT. They have a sports show and a lifestyle show. Of course they will not meet the standards of TVViewer because they are not airing on Shaw (trust me, if the tables were turned and we were talking about Global starting a new station and only producing a morning show, sports show and lifestyle show, TVViewer would be praising them for doing something different and find every which way to defend them, but since the reality is it is Rogers instead, they is complaining all the way), but it is more than just a morning show. Is it perfect? No. I think Rogers' decision to air the sports show on Sportsnet is a joke, but he are doing more than the minimum, but TVViewer still has to complain about it.

    Yes, I have no doubt that Rogers isn't as committed to local programming in other markets than Toronto as the others. But they are meeting their local programming commitments and what they choose to do with that programming is their prerogative. They are a business trying to make money, they are not a charity and if they want to invest little or lots in local programming is their choice. Why the hell should Rogers be airing a evening news and late night news along with a morning show for example when they know it will lose money? I say, put your time and effort and money into one show and make it good so it will actually make money than half ass it and make a whole bunch of other shows and lose money on them all or invest heavily in a large slate of local programming just to lose money on them all at the end of it. Until the CRTC changes the rules and raises the local programming quota (which is a different discussion all together), then there is nothing wrong with what Rogers is doing.

    And it's not like the shows are crap and an embarrassment like Global Montreal's morning show is. They're just a cheap way to fulfill their requirement and for what they are worth, they're ok. It's one thing to put out a cheap show and it be a disaster like Global's, but ti's another thing to put out a cheap show and it be ok, good, or great which I'm assuming BT's other shows fall somewhere within since I haven't heard any complaints here anyways.

  4. #44
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    Hi folks. I see you're enjoying lobbing insults my way. I figured I'd clear up a few things here.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post

    It's not realistic to assume that most people are watching CBC's 5:00PM news and then switching to CTV at 6:00PM for yet another hour of news


    This is true. I watch TV this way, but I don't expect others to. What I'm suggesting isn't that people behave this way, but rather that if your TV is on at 5pm or 5:30pm and you want to watch local news, you tune it to CBC. If your TV is on at 6pm and you want to watch local news, you tune it to CTV. This is why I think CBC has been more successful at 5pm than 6pm, and the numbers seem to support that.

    This is also why I've recommended that Global Montreal move its newscast from 6pm to either 5:30pm or 7pm, because it can't compete directly with CTV, but it might catch some viewers who for whatever reason prefer to watch local news at 7pm or 5:30pm than 6pm.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post

    If Global was a stronger competitor to CTV in Montreal then yes starting first might give them an advantage, but that's not the case,


    Global is never going to match CTV, but it might pick up some viewers with a time change. If you have to leave home at 6pm to go out, watching a 5:30pm newscast covering the same major stories in roughly the same way will be perfectly acceptable to many people. At least, hopefully more than the few thousand currently watching Global News at 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Global Montreal can't afford to take those risks, they move the Evening News from 6:00PM and they risk losing the audience they have.


    Honestly when you have a viewership of less than 10,000 I don't think anyone really cares about the existing audience. It could easily afford to take risks. The problem is that Global sees the success of its other shows, like ET and ET Canada, as more important to protect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

    According to fagstein, CBC Montreal has doubled its viewership in the 5pm slot in the past year, and could double again next year
    I said that first thing, but I didn't say the second. I wouldn't make such bold predictions without any basis to support them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

    One theory why CTV Montreal is gaining so many viewers is their countless times they advertise "...more at six o'clock" during their commercials
    CTV Montreal is successful with its newscast because of its quality and its viewer loyalty. That brings in ads, which increases the budget, which makes the show better, which maintains its dominance. I think the newsbreak ads (which Global and CBC also run) are a minor factor if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post

    Probably because CBC is one of the few stations in Canada which considers their 5:00PM newscast their flagship newscast as opposed to 6:00PM.


    If you actually watched CBC News you'd see that wasn't the case. The station is (in my opinion illogically) constantly pushing the 6pm block, I suppose in an effort to try to boost its ratings. Stories are often presented almost as teasers for some big reveal at 6.

    Not that it really matters either way. The 6pm newscast doesn't differ in a significant way from the 5pm one. It's the same studio, same anchors, same reporters and mostly the same stories. Personally I think they should just dump the 6pm block and make it a regular hour-long newscast, and devote resources to some other type of local programming.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post

    it is EXTREMELY hard to break even on local news, let alone turn a profit. The vast majority of local stations, regardless of the network, lose money on local news even with high ratings.


    This is true. At best local news is a loss leader, but for most it's a cost of doing business.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post


    Wait "HIGHLY RATED"? Everyone knows BT does horrible outside of Toronto. It's understaffed and underfunded and the only thing Rogers does to improve it is replace the hosts every few years, it's crushed by Global's Morning News in the 3 major markets (Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton) and is either beat or almost beat by CTV Morning Live, which is shocking given how CTV Morning Live just launched and had to build their audience from scratch while BT has been on the air for a number of years. Breakfast Television is a ratings success in Toronto and Toronto only, and the Toronto BT has a budget and resources the other shows (including Montreal) do not even come close to having.


    You're right. I've corrected the comment to reflect this. Breakfast Television does very well in Toronto but not so great out west.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post

    Clearly he knows as much about television as he does the ratings for BT outside of Toronto. He actually sees what Rogers is doing in Montreal as "no hesitation to invest". Wow. Only a morning show is no hesitation to invest? Seriously? It's called doing the bare minimum.


    City Montreal has three local programs set to start by fall, and four if you include a Just for Laughs special. Breakfast Television will have a staff of about 25-30 people and will broadcast from a studio being built from scratch. Compared to Global's offering I'd say they're putting in some good money. We're not talking about the good old days of CFCF in terms of local programming, but it's a good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    more than I expected from that a low-power station which retains its ethnic-station position on the dial.
    I don't know what "ethnic-station position on the dial" means. It's an over-the-air station, which places it pretty low. On Videotron, it's Channel 14. It will have carriage on basic analog and digital cable, and it already has a position on satellite.

    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    In contrast, CKMI produces only ONE non-news show, Focus Montreal, because it's part of their licence, and it's being dumped to sunday at midnight just so nobody watches it... and I don't even know what the show is about.
    As for news, Global Montreal have regional offices in Quebec City and Sherbrooke, but so far, I've only seen news for Montreal. Yup, the bare minimum.
    Nothing in CKMI's licence requires the production of Focus Montreal, other than the requirement to produce 14 hours a week of local programming. It airs at 5:30pm on Saturdays, leading into the Evening News, and at 11:30am on Sundays, right after political talk show The West Block. (This, of course, is when it's not pre-empted by sports programming, which it often is by golf on Saturdays.) Global has refused to tell me what the ratings are for the show, but I suspect they're not good.

    FYI, the show is a current affairs interview show, with five-minute interviews with guests making headlines. The interviews are similar in form to what CTV Montreal does weekdays at noon.

    As for offices in Quebec City and Sherbrooke, I'm not aware of any, other than a reporter at the National Assembly. The station used to have bureaus in all three cities (and a morning show produced from Quebec), but that all got cut in budget cuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Wow, in my opinion adding a cheap weekly 30 minute lifestyle show and a cheap weekly 30 minute sports show to go along with a understaffed cheap 5 day a week morning show is not impressive and it certainly doesn't offset the fact that the other station is producing two separate evening and late night newscasts 7 days a week to go along with their morning show.


    I don't know where you're getting the idea that City's shows are "cheap" whereas Global's aren't. News is clearly more expensive, and the CRTC brought that up when City asked for a licence. But I will note that the only reason Global's Morning News is on the air is that Shaw promised to fund it as a condition of buying Canwest. I don't think either station has a right to claim the moral high ground on local programming, but I will note that City's weekly lifestyle show was not part of any CRTC promise and is not required to meet their local programming quota.

    You might not agree with Rogers's decision to focus on a morning show instead of evening newscasts for its local programming, but the CRTC accepted its reason for not doing so: Montreal already has three English-language newscasts at 6pm, and adding a fourth would not only be destined for failure, but would do little for the market. At least in mornings it has a chance to make a bigger splash, albeit with a smaller overall audience.

    And with that, I'll back out of this bizarre pro-Global/anti-Global pissing contest before I start to pick up the scent.

    Thanks for reading my lies-filled stupidity!

  5. #45
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    Bumping to note a post from two days ago just appeared.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fagstein View Post
    I don't know what "ethnic-station position on the dial" means. It's an over-the-air station, which places it pretty low. On Videotron, it's Channel 14. It will have carriage on basic analog and digital cable, and it already has a position on satellite.
    What I meant is, while channel surfing, most Montrealers know "channel 14" is a channel position used for an ethnic channel, and therefor just go directly to the next channel. This isn't good for City Montreal, which benefits only from simsubs. The same way people in their car know that "dance and rock" music stations are between 94.3 and 97.7 FM while "adult music" stations are 105.7 and 107.3 FM. Habits die hard.

    I don't know for satellite, but when ICI will launch, Vidťotron will add it on digital lineup somewhere. If they move City Montreal to 13 (its position in Gatineau) and launch ICI to 14, Montrealers will start to notice a new channel position popped up, while those used to ethnic programming will start watching channel 14 again. Oh well.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Wow, in my opinion adding a cheap weekly 30 minute lifestyle show and a cheap weekly 30 minute sports show to go along with a understaffed cheap 5 day a week morning show is not impressive and it certainly doesn't offset the fact that the other station is producing two separate evening and late night newscasts 7 days a week to go along with their morning show.
    Hey, speaking of an understaffed BT Morning show...

    Montreal Natives Catherine Verdon-Diamond, Laura Casella, and Elias Makos Join On-Air Team for Breakfast Televisionon CityMontreal


    Ė New on-air additions join previously announced Breakfast Television hosts Alexandre Despatie, Joanne Vrakas, and Wilder Weir ĖĖ
    ĖĖ Breakfast Television to premiere Monday, Aug. 26 at 6 a.m. ET on City Montreal ĖĖ

    MONTREAL (July 5, 2013) As City Montreal gears up to launch its new morning show Breakfast Television, it announced today the expansion of its on-air team, with the addition of Montreal natives Catherine Verdon-Diamond as Weather and Traffic Specialist, Laura Casella as News Producer and Reporter, and Elias Makos as New Media Producer and Commentator.

    Casella, Verdon-Diamond, and Makos join previously announced Breakfast Television in-studio hosts Alexandre Despatie and Joanne Vrakas, along with Live Eye Host Wilder Weir.

    Breakfast Television will premiere Monday, Aug. 26 at 6 a.m. ET on City Montreal. Following the successful model of Breakfast Television brands in Canadaís major cities across the country Ė Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver - Breakfast Television is set to air weekday mornings from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. ET.
    Local on-air personnalities :
    - BT Montreal : 6
    - Global Montreal News : 3
    - Canada AM on CTV Montreal : 0
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    Hey, speaking of an understaffed BT Morning show...


    Local on-air personnalities :
    - BT Montreal : 6
    - Global Montreal News : 3
    - Canada AM on CTV Montreal : 0
    As I said already, it's cheap and understaffed given the fact that this is the entire news operations for the entire station. It is beyond horrible for a local television station producing local news to have an on-air team of 6. Global Montreal's Morning News has access to the team of reporters of Global Montreal, BT has a "live eye" (who will basically do the same thing Global has Jessica do) one reporter, and a tech guy. Just like all the other City stations outside of Toronto, City Montreal will simply not be able to properly cover news, let alone breaking news or comprehensive coverage of news.

    Having more people officially assigned to BT will not give them any advantage. Global Montreal will beat them when it comes to covering news and Canada AM will beat them with lifestyle content. I still see no reason why BT wont be a ratings disaster just like it is in all markets where it is produced this way.


    Remember this is the same Rogers that calls mornings shows that barely register in the ratings "successful". This is the same Rogers that called Citytv Calgary's pathetic near non-existent coverage (only special coverage was 2 hour Saturday and Sunday editions of BT with their one reporter and weather specialist outside) "extensive". It's easy to make your programming sound good in a PR, but if you actually watch these Citytv stations attempt to cover news you will see why they barely register in the ratings.
    Last edited by TVViewer; 07-09-2013 at 10:42 PM.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Fagstein;62850]

    Hi folks. I see you're enjoying lobbing insults my way. I figured I'd clear up a few things here.
    I do apologize but it's frustrating to see something not truthful on a blog that most people assume to be truthful. Happy to see that you corrected the mistake.


    This is true. I watch TV this way, but I don't expect others to. What I'm suggesting isn't that people behave this way, but rather that if your TV is on at 5pm or 5:30pm and you want to watch local news, you tune it to CBC. If your TV is on at 6pm and you want to watch local news, you tune it to CTV. This is why I think CBC has been more successful at 5pm than 6pm, and the numbers seem to support that.

    This is also why I've recommended that Global Montreal move its newscast from 6pm to either 5:30pm or 7pm, because it can't compete directly with CTV, but it might catch some viewers who for whatever reason prefer to watch local news at 7pm or 5:30pm than 6pm.
    Thatís a pretty fringe group of people though and thatís not the reason stations schedule their newscasts at 5:30PM. Most people who are home at 5:30PM are still at home at 6:00PM, Until Global National moved to 5:30PM Global Quebec and practically every Global station (excluding Global BC) had their flagship evening newscast start at 5:30PM, and it was not to catch viewers going out at 6:00PM, it was to give viewers home at 6:00PM the choice to watch a flagship newscast a half hour earlier. Global Montreal is simply not strong enough for a half hour difference to give them an advantage over CTVís evening news.


    Global is never going to match CTV, but it might pick up some viewers with a time change. If you have to leave home at 6pm to go out, watching a 5:30pm newscast covering the same major stories in roughly the same way will be perfectly acceptable to many people. At least, hopefully more than the few thousand currently watching Global News at 6.
    Honestly when you have a viewership of less than 10,000 I don't think anyone really cares about the existing audience. It could easily afford to take risks. The problem is that Global sees the success of its other shows, like ET and ET Canada, as more important to protect.
    Like I said, they are not at a point where their newscast is even close to breaking even, they will still lose money if they triple their audience. Why move the newscast to 7:00PM when itís A). Practically still guaranteed to lose money, and B). Practically guaranteed to result in lower ratings in that time slot. Itís more about protecting the station than protecting the primetime content. Itís not good for the station to have lower primetime ratings just so their local money losing newscast has a few thousand more viewers.

    I also disagree they have nothing to lose. I canít see any private broadcaster sticking with a local evening newscast generating even fewer viewers than it does now. If they move the Evening News and it bombs in its new time slot then itís not going to be easy getting those viewers back when it returns to 6:00PM. They are required to broadcast 14 hours of local programming per week, they can either file for regulatory relief (using the fact that the CRTC approved a new competitor in the market) or meet their requirements only producing the Morning News.


    CTV Montreal is successful with its newscast because of its quality and its viewer loyalty. That brings in ads, which increases the budget, which makes the show better, which maintains its dominance. I think the newsbreak ads (which Global and CBC also run) are a minor factor if at all.
    I agree.

    If you actually watched CBC News you'd see that wasn't the case. The station is (in my opinion illogically) constantly pushing the 6pm block, I suppose in an effort to try to boost its ratings. Stories are often presented almost as teasers for some big reveal at 6.

    Not that it really matters either way. The 6pm newscast doesn't differ in a significant way from the 5pm one. It's the same studio, same anchors, same reporters and mostly the same stories. Personally I think they should just dump the 6pm block and make it a regular hour-long newscast, and devote resources to some other type of local programming.
    This is what I meant when I said CBC doesn't treat their 6:00PM newscast as their flagship. They may promote the 6:00PM newscast during the 5:00PM portion but as far as I know they promote their evening news starting at 5:00PM. They market their 5:00PM newscast the same way CTV, Global, and City market their 6:00PM flagship newscast.


    This is true. At best local news is a loss leader, but for most it's a cost of doing business.
    Yes but some make a higher commitment than others. Rogers commitment to local news simply doesn't even come close to that of Bell and Shaw.



    You're right. I've corrected the comment to reflect this. Breakfast Television does very well in Toronto but not so great out west.
    Yes but you canít compare BT Toronto to BT Montreal. BT Toronto has the resources to properly cover news and has a far bigger budget than that of BT Montreal. Comparing BT Toronto to BT Montreal is like comparing Global BCís Morning News to Global Montrealís Morning News. There are zero markets where BT is successful with this kind of budget and resources, and then you have to add in the fact that they are a new station building an audience from scratch and how successful Canada AM is in the market. It's unlikely that Rogers even thinks BT Montreal will be a ratings success (privately of course)

    In fact if anything I would say the BT format will hurt their chances in the market. I would say the biggest weakness for Canada AM is the fact that their news is not local, but if BT Montreal isnít going to properly cover local news either then what advantage does BT have? Is local Montreal lifestyle content really going to be more appealing than the lifestyle content featured on Canada AM?



    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

    City Montreal has three local programs set to start by fall, and four if you include a Just for Laughs special. Breakfast Television will have a staff of about 25-30 people and will broadcast from a studio being built from scratch. Compared to Global's offering I'd say they're putting in some good money. We're not talking about the good old days of CFCF in terms of local programming, but it's a good start.

    I still disagree that Rogers is showing "no hesitation to invest". It's one thing to have 25-30 people for a morning show but when that's basically the entire staff for the stations news operations & production it's not very impressive. As I noted earlier BT Montreal has a bigger budget and higher staff count than Global Montreal's Morning News because they have a different production model and no other newscasts to draw resources and reporters from. For BT Montreal to have news content and stories they are going to need to hire people Global Montreal already has, and then you have to add in the cost of their production model vs that of Global Montreal's. I'm not saying Global Montreal's Morning News is fantastic (although I don't think it's unwatchable), it's not like the Morning News on other Global stations as it does not have the same budget and resources, but I think you are drastically over-estimating how much better BT Montreal is going to be. It's going to be like the other BT's outside Toronto, and although the people at those stations are doing the best they can with the resources they have, there's a reason why they get crushed by Global's Morning News in those markets, itís not a quality program at all, and they are absolutely terrible at covering news.



    I don't know where you're getting the idea that City's shows are "cheap" whereas Global's aren't. News is clearly more expensive, and the CRTC brought that up when City asked for a licence.

    Yes, news is more expensive than the lifestyle/sports shows City is putting out. Thatís my point. City will cover news for BT but they wont be spending as much to cover news as Global Montreal.



    But I will note that the only reason Global's Morning News is on the air is that Shaw promised to fund it as a condition of buying Canwest. I don't think either station has a right to claim the moral high ground on local programming,

    I don't either but at least they arenít doing as little as City Montreal. This is why I think it's so disappointing the CRTC approved Rogers application to launch City Montreal, they pretty much gave a struggling station a new competitor making a smaller commitment to local programming.



    but I will note that City's weekly lifestyle show was not part of any CRTC promise and is not required to meet their local programming quota.

    Actually, Rogers has a condition of licence for City to spend about 2% of the City network's revenue on NEW local programming, and 80% of that must come from outside Toronto. Citytv is the only network with this condition of licence.


    You might not agree with Rogers's decision to focus on a morning show instead of evening newscasts for its local programming, but the CRTC accepted its reason for not doing so: Montreal already has three English-language newscasts at 6pm, and adding a fourth would not only be destined for failure, but would do little for the market. At least in mornings it has a chance to make a bigger splash, albeit with a smaller overall audience.
    My problem is that's not the only reason Rogers is not launching newscasts. The other reason is that itís way cheaper to only focus on a morning show than it is running a 7 day a week morning to night news operation. They know BT is a ratings failure in every single market it has this budget, they know as well as you and I do how successful Canada AM is in the Montreal market, and they know that both BT Montreal and the station overall will lose millions of dollars each year. City is entering the Montreal market to get higher national ad rates for their U.S. primetime programming in simulcast, and their presence in this market could result in less local programming overall. If Shaw were to eliminate newscasts at Global Montreal to offset the loss from revenue from a new competitor in the market you are not going to see Rogers replace those newscasts. They have made it pretty clear that they are not entering Montreal to be a serious competitor for news, and in my opinion they shouldnít be praised for launching a station with such a poor commitment to local programming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    As I said already, it's cheap and understaffed given the fact that this is the entire news operations for the entire station. It is beyond horrible for a local television station producing local news to have an on-air team of 6.
    Last I checked, Global Montreal has a reporting staff of six, not including freelancers. So is that also "beyond horrible"?

    Also, City Montreal is planning on having an on-air team of about a dozen for Breakfast Television. I'm waiting to hear details on what the remaining positions are.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Global Montreal's Morning News has access to the team of reporters of Global Montreal
    I'm not sure what "access" is supposed to mean in this context. They can run pieces from the previous night's evening newscast, but I've yet to see a Global Montreal news reporter do anything for the morning show. If it happens, it's certainly not common.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    BT has a "live eye" (who will basically do the same thing Global has Jessica do)
    Except weather and traffic. Which is her main function.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Just like all the other City stations outside of Toronto, City Montreal will simply not be able to properly cover news, let alone breaking news or comprehensive coverage of news.
    If news breaks while they're on the air, I imagine they'll do their best to cover it. But sure, not having an evening or late-night newscast, or a national network newscast, is a serious disadvantage in terms of newsgathering.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    I still see no reason why BT wont be a ratings disaster just like it is in all markets where it is produced this way.
    Rather than argue predictions, I'd rather just wait until we get the first ratings in January. But while I don't have any evidence that BT will be successful, I have no evidence that it won't either.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Until Global National moved to 5:30PM Global Quebec and practically every Global station (excluding Global BC) had their flagship evening newscast start at 5:30PM, and it was not to catch viewers going out at 6:00PM, it was to give viewers home at 6:00PM the choice to watch a flagship newscast a half hour earlier. Global Montreal is simply not strong enough for a half hour difference to give them an advantage over CTV’s evening news.
    I'm not suggesting Global will be more successful than CTV. I'm saying it'll lose fewer viewers when it's up against Dr. Oz than when it's up against the most popular television show in English Montreal.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Like I said, they are not at a point where their newscast is even close to breaking even, they will still lose money if they triple their audience. Why move the newscast to 7:00PM when it’s A). Practically still guaranteed to lose money, and B). Practically guaranteed to result in lower ratings in that time slot. It’s more about protecting the station than protecting the primetime content. It’s not good for the station to have lower primetime ratings just so their local money losing newscast has a few thousand more viewers.
    They'll lose less money if they triple their audience. But sure, moving the newscast to 7pm might hurt the ratings of ET Canada (assuming there aren't a bunch of people who would rather watch ET Canada than local news at 6pm). And I suspect that's why Global's newscast is at 6pm, not because that's what's best for the newscast, but because they've given up on that timeslot.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    I also disagree they have nothing to lose. I can’t see any private broadcaster sticking with a local evening newscast generating even fewer viewers than it does now. If they move the Evening News and it bombs in its new time slot then it’s not going to be easy getting those viewers back when it returns to 6:00PM.
    "Getting those viewers back"? I don't want to make light of their ratings problems, but the show has no viewers. There are no viewers to get back. And it will stick with the newscast because it is required to by CRTC regulations.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    They are required to broadcast 14 hours of local programming per week, they can either file for regulatory relief (using the fact that the CRTC approved a new competitor in the market) or meet their requirements only producing the Morning News.
    They can't do that without CRTC approval. Morning News is funded using benefits money from the Shaw/Canwest deal, and it must be in addition to the money they were spending maintaining 14 hours of local programming per week. And since Shaw didn't oppose the new competitor to the market, and because Shaw is hardly struggling financially, it's unlikely the CRTC would accept such a request.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    This is what I meant when I said CBC doesn't treat their 6:00PM newscast as their flagship. They may promote the 6:00PM newscast during the 5:00PM portion but as far as I know they promote their evening news starting at 5:00PM. They market their 5:00PM newscast the same way CTV, Global, and City market their 6:00PM flagship newscast.
    Actually they promote their evening newscast as three newscasts, starting at 5, 5:30 and 6pm.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Rogers commitment to local news simply doesn't even come close to that of Bell and Shaw.
    I agree. But not all local programming is local news. And non-news local programming isn't always cheaper.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    I still disagree that Rogers is showing "no hesitation to invest". It's one thing to have 25-30 people for a morning show but when that's basically the entire staff for the stations news operations & production it's not very impressive.
    It's not the entire staff of the station. It doesn't include the half-dozen staff from Montreal Connected, or the independently produced Only In Montreal series. That figure does, however, represent a good estimate of the staff of Global Montreal. (It was about 25 before the morning show, a bit above 30 now.)


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    This is why I think it's so disappointing the CRTC approved Rogers application to launch City Montreal, they pretty much gave a struggling station a new competitor making a smaller commitment to local programming.
    Global Montreal isn't a "struggling station" last I checked. Global's primetime programming still rates very well in Montreal. It simply has a poorly-funded local news operation. And for better or for worse, the CRTC doesn't judge local programming based on budget, number of on-air staff or the quality of the show and how well it covers the news. They look simply at hours of programming. And Rogers will be meeting the 14 hours a week they've promised.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Actually, Rogers has a condition of licence for City to spend about 2% of the City network's revenue on NEW local programming, and 80% of that must come from outside Toronto. Citytv is the only network with this condition of licence.
    You're right. (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-447.htm) City also has a condition requiring spending of 3% of City's programming budget on independent English-language productions in Quebec. Combining these two and a local independent program in Montreal makes sense, although it's not strictly necessary to fulfill either requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    City is entering the Montreal market to get higher national ad rates for their U.S. primetime programming in simulcast
    You say this as if Bell and Shaw have different motivations. (I should add it's not just for higher rates, it's also to get advertisers who otherwise wouldn't advertise because they fell that City isn't yet a national player.)

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    If Shaw were to eliminate newscasts at Global Montreal to offset the loss from revenue from a new competitor in the market...
    They would need to justify that to the CRTC. Again, because the Morning News funding must be incremental, they can't just kill the evening news and say they're still producing 14 hours a week of local programming. That changes after five years, but unless there's a drastic change the morning show is much more likely to get the boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    They have made it pretty clear that they are not entering Montreal to be a serious competitor for news, and in my opinion they shouldn’t be praised for launching a station with such a poor commitment to local programming.
    The CRTC licence for City Montreal requires the morning show to have "a significant amount of local news". Maybe it's not good enough for you, and you are entitled to that opinion. But I don't see how this market is better served by having a fourth local evening newscast at 6pm when the third one already has such poor ratings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    This is the same Rogers that called Citytv Calgary's pathetic near non-existent coverage (only special coverage was 2 hour Saturday and Sunday editions of BT with their one reporter and weather specialist outside) "extensive".
    You forgot to mention Global Montreal News special coverage of the Lac Megantic disaster which happened during the night of friday to saturday... non-existent! While RDI, CBC News and LCN were all over it, Global had Golf as usual, and fillers The Simpsons reruns and the infomercials as usual. The news just came up at 6 and 11pm.

    I can bet they sent out a Toronto news reporter just for a Global National segment, additional to CKMI reporter Tim Sargeant who is/was there this week for the aftermath.

    But over Global Calgary the previous week, they pre-empted the entire friday night lineup to cover the aftermath of flooding...

    It's a clear sign Shaw doesn't care at all about CKMI but keep it alive just to be eligible to national advertisements sales (which was one of the main reason Rogers brought CJNT).
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

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    [QUOTE=Fagstein;63176]

    Last I checked, Global Montreal has a reporting staff of six, not including freelancers. So is that also "beyond horrible"?

    Also, City Montreal is planning on having an on-air team of about a dozen for Breakfast Television. I'm waiting to hear details on what the remaining positions are.
    I said an entire on-air team of 6 is bad, not 6 reporters. That being said I count more reporters than 6 at Global Montreal. Paola, Rachel, Anne, Caroline, Tim, Billy, Domenic, Aalia, Elysia (News Final anchor, reports for Evening News), ect..., I'm not sure who is "freelance" but they have more than 6 people reporting for the station. Right now Citytv Montreal has ONE on-air news reporter (two if you include what the "live-eye" does as reporting). If Citytv hires 6 more on-air reporters for BT then wow that would be great but there is no other Citytv station outside of Toronto with an on-air team of 12, the rest only have one or two reporters. Wouldn't be the first time Rogers made a little exaggeration. I would love nothing more to be wrong and for City Montreal to hire a full team of reporters for BT.

    I'm not sure what "access" is supposed to mean in this context. They can run pieces from the previous night's evening newscast, but I've yet to see a Global Montreal news reporter do anything for the morning show. If it happens, it's certainly not common.

    They don't have a regular live reporter for the Morning News besides Jessica's outside segments, but they do have the ability to access live reporters from Global Montreal and Global News if necessary (as they did this week for the disaster). Iím not saying Global Montrealís news is perfect, but I think your expectations of BT are far too high.


    Except weather and traffic. Which is her main function.

    If news breaks while they're on the air, I imagine they'll do their best to cover it. But sure, not having an evening or late-night newscast, or a national network newscast, is a serious disadvantage in terms of newsgathering.

    Not to mention no weekend newscasts. They have a very small window with the ability to cover breaking news, and even if it happens while on the air, having only 1 or 2 reporters will work against them.


    Rather than argue predictions, I'd rather just wait until we get the first ratings in January. But while I don't have any evidence that BT will be successful, I have no evidence that it won't either.

    You argued predictions with the people who commented on your post, but yes we will find out in January (i'm sure CTV will be happy to provide you with the numbers) I'm basing my prediction on how every other BT with this level of resources has performed, while taking into consideration Canada AM's ratings in Montreal. There is plenty of evidence of how hard it is for a new competitor to be successful breaking into a new market. Maybe Montreal viewers will react differently than viewers in other markets but if you look at how BT has performed in other markets then the odds are overwhelming against it being successful. If it is successful it will be unprecedented.



    I'm not suggesting Global will be more successful than CTV. I'm saying it'll lose fewer viewers when it's up against Dr. Oz than when it's up against the most popular television show in English Montreal.

    The station has been unsuccessful with both local news and Global National in the 5:30PM time slot. It's not like they never tried news in that slot.

    They'll lose less money if they triple their audience. But sure, moving the newscast to 7pm might hurt the ratings of ET Canada (assuming there aren't a bunch of people who would rather watch ET Canada than local news at 6pm). And I suspect that's why Global's newscast is at 6pm, not because that's what's best for the newscast, but because they've given up on that timeslot.
    I said best for the station, not newscast. It's not good for Global Montreal to have lower ratings in primetime. When it comes to network programming, Montreal is not a strong market for Global anyway (i'm sure CTV would be more than happy to share with you how they dominate the top 30 in Montreal, in most markets low rated local news typically results in lower primetime ratings than that of the station with the dominant newscast)


    "Getting those viewers back"? I don't want to make light of their ratings problems, but the show has no viewers. There are no viewers to get back. And it will stick with the newscast because it is required to by CRTC regulations.

    They can't do that without CRTC approval. Morning News is funded using benefits money from the Shaw/Canwest deal, and it must be in addition to the money they were spending maintaining 14 hours of local programming per week.

    What are you basing this statement on? Although I don't think there has ever been a situation where local programming was funded entirely by benefit funding I don't ever recall benefit programming not counting towards local/Canadian programming broadcast requriements.



    And since Shaw didn't oppose the new competitor to the market, and because Shaw is hardly struggling financially, it's unlikely the CRTC would accept such a request.


    Actually, in Shaw's submission they said that if the CRTC approves Rogers application for CJNT then they should be prepared for other stations in the market to file for regulatory relief in regards to local programming commitments. Shaw may not be struggling financially but Global Montreal certainly is, if Shaw were to file for regulatory relief in Montreal they do have a good case as the CRTC allowed a new competitor to enter the market and they were warned by Shaw that the market may not be able to support this many stations.



    Actually they promote their evening newscast as three newscasts, starting at 5, 5:30 and 6pm.


    Okay, but does their 6:00PM newscast receive more promotion than the 5:00PM newscast outside of the newscast?



    I agree. But not all local programming is local news. And non-news local programming isn't always cheaper.

    True, but Citytv's is.

    It's not the entire staff of the station. It doesn't include the half-dozen staff from Montreal Connected, or the independently produced Only In Montreal series. That figure does, however, represent a good estimate of the staff of Global Montreal. (It was about 25 before the morning show, a bit above 30 now.)
    Citytv has a different production model which requires more people to do the same thing


    Global Montreal isn't a "struggling station" last I checked. Global's primetime programming still rates very well in Montreal. It simply has a poorly-funded local news operation. And for better or for worse, the CRTC doesn't judge local programming based on budget, number of on-air staff or the quality of the show and how well it covers the news. They look simply at hours of programming. And Rogers will be meeting the 14 hours a week they've promised.

    The station is losing money and has the lowest ratings of any Global station. To say they are struggling is an understatement.


    You're right. (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-447.htm) City also has a condition requiring spending of 3% of City's programming budget on independent English-language productions in Quebec. Combining these two and a local independent program in Montreal makes sense, although it's not strictly necessary to fulfill either requirement.


    You say this as if Bell and Shaw have different motivations. (I should add it's not just for higher rates, it's also to get advertisers who otherwise wouldn't advertise because they fell that City isn't yet a national player.)

    Motivations are the same but the commitment to local news is not.


    They would need to justify that to the CRTC. Again, because the Morning News funding must be incremental, they can't just kill the evening news and say they're still producing 14 hours a week of local programming. That changes after five years, but unless there's a drastic change the morning show is much more likely to get the boot.

    How about, we told you how we were already struggling financially in the market and you allowed a new competitor anyway, our financial situation has worsened as a result of your decision to allow a new competitor to enter the market and we wish to file for regulatory relief in regards to local programming obligations. Wouldn't be the first time a Montreal station reduced local content after a new competitor entered the market.


    Also, even if you are right about the Morning News not being allowed to contribute to their local programming obligations due to the fact that it's benefit funding (I don't think you are but I will accept your answer if you say you know this for a fact) they could still get away with cutting programming without filing for regulatory relief. The Morning News benefit is only 10 hours per week, it can be shortened to 2 hours and they can re-air the Evening News each morning at 6:00AM & 6:30AM, while eliminating the weekend Evening News and News Final along with the weekday News Final. There is room for them to make cuts they have just chosen to not do so, which is great, but it's always concerning to see a local station already struggling financially possibly face another financial challenge (losing revenue to CJNT due to the fact that the Citytv lineup is now available in Montreal for simulcast)

    The CRTC licence for City Montreal requires the morning show to have "a significant amount of local news". Maybe it's not good enough for you, and you are entitled to that opinion. But I don't see how this market is better served by having a fourth local evening newscast at 6pm when the third one already has such poor ratings.

    I have seen what Rogers considers "significant" when it comes to local news. I donít think Montreal viewers benefit with what Rogers is planning to give them especially if it results in newscast eliminations at other stations. Hopefully Shaw will be able to maintain the local news funding at Global Montreal over the next few years and after the benefit period but having a new competitor can put more financial strain on the station, now if that competitor was competing against them by making a strong commitment to local news that would be fine but Rogers isnít willing to do that. Even though it likely wouldnít be approved due to ownership restrictions Montreal viewers would be served better with Bell buying CJNT and turning it into a CTV2 station and operating it like they do their CTV/CTV2 twinstick in Ottawa, at least that station is able to put out a morning show people actually watch (In fact if they operated CTV2 Montreal the same way as CTV2 Ottawa viewers would get more local news than City Montreal) I can accept a new station entering Montreal if they plan to really provide value to viewers in the market, we will see in January when the ratings come out just how much value Rogers brings to viewers in Montreal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    You forgot to mention Global Montreal News special coverage of the Lac Megantic disaster which happened during the night of friday to saturday... non-existent! While RDI, CBC News and LCN were all over it, Global had Golf as usual, and fillers The Simpsons reruns and the infomercials as usual. The news just came up at 6 and 11pm.

    I can bet they sent out a Toronto news reporter just for a Global National segment, additional to CKMI reporter Tim Sargeant who is/was there this week for the aftermath.

    But over Global Calgary the previous week, they pre-empted the entire friday night lineup to cover the aftermath of flooding...

    I donít see how continuously complaining about Global Montreal changes anything about the points iím making about Citytv Montreal.


    It's a clear sign Shaw doesn't care at all about CKMI but keep it alive just to be eligible to national advertisements sales (which was one of the main reason Rogers brought CJNT).

    If that were really the case then Shaw would be operating CKMI the same way Rogers operates CJNT. Hopefully they donít ever reach that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    When it comes to network programming, Montreal is not a strong market for Global anyway (i'm sure CTV would be more than happy to share with you how they dominate the top 30 in Montreal, in most markets low rated local news typically results in lower primetime ratings than that of the station with the dominant newscast)
    Interesting. CTV dominates primarily with the reality shows (DWTS, Voice, Idol, etc.) and the 10pm drama show. CTV Toronto made the network decision to dump almost all reality shows to CTV2 this year and air more sitcoms and dramas instead. We'll see how that goes this upcoming season.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Actually, in Shaw's submission they said that if the CRTC approves Rogers application for CJNT then they should be prepared for other stations in the market to file for regulatory relief in regards to local programming commitments. Shaw may not be struggling financially but Global Montreal certainly is, if Shaw were to file for regulatory relief in Montreal they do have a good case as the CRTC allowed a new competitor to enter the market and they were warned by Shaw that the market may not be able to support this many stations.
    Well, here's the thing. City Montreal's BT will probably be a threat to Global Montreal's morning show, but not for the whole rest of the day. In other words, it's ridiculous to think that CKMI will complain they're losing money for their newscast at 6pm because CJNT airs... Murdoch Mysteries, and therefor they need some relief and eliminate some newscasts.

    CKMI does nothing outstanding to attract viewers. They put themselves into this situation. If their ultimate goal is to fail, why would the CRTC give them some regulatory relief? It's too easy to play the blame game. Get real.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Even though it likely wouldn’t be approved due to ownership restrictions Montreal viewers would be served better with Bell buying CJNT and turning it into a CTV2 station and operating it like they do their CTV/CTV2 twinstick in Ottawa...
    They would just dump the Ottawa local news on their Montreal repeater.

    Digital sub-channels is a solution, an affiliate is another solution.
    Canada is surely different from the US. Even the smallest market is able to get *network programming* from PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox AND The CW. Small markets in Canada can't even get a local Global station, the #2 private network. Pathetic. Still, all canadian markets should get the minimum of CBC, CTV1, Global, Citytv and CTV2 in one form or another.
    Last edited by InMontreal; 07-10-2013 at 04:36 PM.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

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    City and Global set for morning show faceoff
    By Mike Cohen
    The Suburban

    Article : http://www.mikecohen.ca/files/global...uly-312013.pdf
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

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    Flipping channels... on Global, Jessica on location for Big Brother Canada auditions outside Sheraton, using an SD camera in 16:9 format, yikes! That looks like a low-budget station. On wait, it is.

    Went to City Montreal, Wilder Weir was live from some clinic, in glorious HD.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    Well, here's the thing. City Montreal's BT will probably be a threat to Global Montreal's morning show,.


    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    I'm basing my prediction on how every other BT with this level of resources has performed, while taking into consideration Canada AM's ratings in Montreal. There is plenty of evidence of how hard it is for a new competitor to be successful breaking into a new market. Maybe Montreal viewers will react differently than viewers in other markets but if you look at how BT has performed in other markets then the odds are overwhelming against it being successful. If it is successful it will be unprecedented.
    From the fagstien blog:


    Canada AM (CTV): 15,000
    Morning News (Global): 2,700
    Breakfast Television (City): 2,400



    BT's low ratings and only being able to match Global Montreal shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. As I said above, if BT was a success it would be unprecedented as it's not successful in any market outside Toronto where it has this level of resources and is the only newscast produced by the station.

    That being said, although it appears some here expected BT Montreal to be this great show that would come in and destory Global Montreal's Morning News and Canada AM (Fagstein certainly had high hopes for BT) I doubt Rogers is surprised by these numbers. They know how this kind of BT performs and they have projected City Montreal to lose millions of dollars, they are here in the market for City's primetime schedule. Plus as I said above, BT is the cheapest way for Rogers to meet their local programming requirements without the unions getting involved, so just like Global Montreal's Morning News, BT isn't going anywhere despite the low ratings.

    Personally i'm happy since if BT was a ratings success it would send a message to Global Montreal that you can have success with a morning show even if it's the only local program you produce. Since benefit programming does count towards local programming obligations, I would have feared for the future of things like weekend and late night newscasts if their competitor had success just producing a morning show.

    One interesting fact, Montreal is the only market in Canada where Canada AM outperforms the local morning programs in the ratings. Although again, I expected this, especially after BT Montreal launched.
    Last edited by TVViewer; 01-17-2014 at 08:24 PM.

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    By the way, TVViewer, your 1st link to fagstein's blog is the one from august while you intended to link to the one from yesterday...

    But let's spin the numbers !

    Global Morning News started out at the end of january 2013, and the BBM ratings went out mid-may. 3 months and a half in, they went from "last night's evening news repeat" to 500 viewers.

    BT Montreal started out at the end of august. 4 months and a half in, they went from zero to 2400.
    It took Global exactly 8 months to grow from 500 viewers to 2700, a 440% increase.

    Real market considerations.
    - Global is part of the market since 1997, and have a prime channel position : channel 3 analog cable, 8/608 HD on digital cable, next to CTV located at 7/607 HD.
    - Citytv is on channel 14 analog and 14/614 HD digital cable, a channel position that's been used for ethnic programming since 1997. Heck, I have an old 13 inches TV in my kitchen with rotary dial, so I have to turn on the VCR and set the TV channel to 3 (!) before hitting the TV/VCR button.
    - On Shaw Direct (Advanced), CKMI is on channel 59, next to CFCF on 57, while CJNT is all the way on 97, sandwiched between the Weather Channel and some CBC affiliate from Windsor...

    So yeah, Global had a 7 month head start and ended up with 300 more viewers than BT... impressive.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

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    [QUOTE=InMontreal;65066]

    But let's spin the numbers !
    There is no realistic way to spin these numbers as good. These are low ratings for both shows. Just because they expected poor numbers doesn't make the numbers good. Canada AM could lose half of its audience and still beat the ratings of both shows combined.

    But again, this was expected by both. Rogers knows how this kind of BT performs and they are willing to absorb the losses in return to having their primetime lineup in Montreal. Shaw was also realistic with the Morning News, which is why the show doesn't have as big of a budget or as many resources as the Global Morning News programs in other markets, they gave the Montreal Morning News a realistic budget for the station so that it could survive after the benefit funding is spent and provided the Montreal Anglophone audience with a nice little Montreal Anglophone community news heavy alternative to Canada AM and BT.


    Global Morning News started out at the end of january 2013, and the BBM ratings went out mid-may. 3 months and a half in, they went from "last night's evening news repeat" to 500 viewers.

    BT Montreal started out at the end of august. 4 months and a half in, they went from zero to 2400.
    It took Global exactly 8 months to grow from 500 viewers to 2700, a 440% increase.
    No, this is not true. This is the problem with the BBM diary system. It only counts what people said they watched for a week in February or March. What people watched in April, May, June, July, August, and September is totally unknown, so you can't claim that it took "exactly 8 months" to gain those viewers.

    Real market considerations.
    - Global is part of the market since 1997, and have a prime channel position : channel 3 analog cable, 8/608 HD on digital cable, next to CTV located at 7/607 HD.
    This is irreverent, Global is nothing even remotely close to an established station in Montreal. Just because they have been around since 1997 doesn't mean they are established in the market. That's like saying CJNT is established because they have been around since 2001. The station didn't even become "Global Montreal" until the fall of 2009, before that it was known as a regional station and branded Global Quebec (which isn't very appealing to an Anglophone viewer looking for news that focuses on the Montreal Anglophone community). In addition, during all this time it wasn't available on BOTH satellite providers, despite the fact that there is high satellite penetration among the Anglophone community in Montreal. This combined with CTV's dominance in the market has resulted in significantly low rated news on the station, ratings much lower than other Global stations. They are still a new competitor building their audience in the market.

    - Citytv is on channel 14 analog and 14/614 HD digital cable, a channel position that's been used for ethnic programming since 1997. Heck, I have an old 13 inches TV in my kitchen with rotary dial, so I have to turn on the VCR and set the TV channel to 3 (!) before hitting the TV/VCR button.
    - On Shaw Direct (Advanced), CKMI is on channel 59, next to CFCF on 57, while CJNT is all the way on 97, sandwiched between the Weather Channel and some CBC affiliate from Windsor...
    And on Bell TV City Montreal is available in HD while Global Montreal is not. *Edit: Not only is Global Montreal only available in standard definition on Bell TV, but it's separated from the other Montreal stations, on channel 234 sandwiched in-between CTV Regina and CKWS Kingston. While City Montreal is on 207 right beside CBC Montreal and CTV Montreal, City Montreal HD is on the channel right above CTV Montreal HD. Meanwhile, on Shaw Direct Classic, Global Montreal is also separated from the Montreal stations on channel 330, sandwiched in between Global Toronto and Global Halifax. Not that I think channel placement makes any difference, I think your argument is ridiculous. but you are blaming channel placement on City Montreal's low ratings while purposely ignoring that Global Montreal's channel placement is actually worse. Global Montreal is not in HD on Bell satellite, and in standard definition is separated from Montreal stations on both Bell satellite and Shaw Direct Classic. Again, your argument is ridiculous, but even if it made any sense it actually doesn't help your case since the channel placement is worse for the other station.

    Channel positions don't matter if the station does not have an existing audience for their news programming, and Global Montreal's existing audience for their news programming was very small. This is why launching the Morning News has been so much more challenging for Global in Montreal then it has been for Global in the other markets, all the other Global stations have a far larger existing audience for their news programming that they can send to the Morning News, Global Montreal really only had the few thousand people watching their Evening News as potential viewers for their Morning News, and since it's not realistic for a morning show to rate as high as an evening newscast, Global Montreal's Morning News wasn't able to benefit from the existing evening audiences the same way all the other Global stations have. Even though City Montreal had an existing audience of zero, Global Montreal's existing audience for their news programming is not big enough to really give them much of an advantage.


    So yeah, Global had a 7 month head start and ended up with 300 more viewers than BT... impressive.
    Again, the ratings for neither show are impressive. I didn't expect them to be. You and others however appeared to assume that BT would be this fantastic huge success. You continuously posted about how much better you thought BT was, with their real set and live reporter (which is offset by the fact that she's the only reporter covering news for the station) Fagstein went on about how BT has a bigger budget and more staff than the Morning News all the time, even saying "it’s hard not to think the battle is already over" in the Gazette before BT launched. Well, if BT was really so much better with their bigger budget and more staff it wouldn't be doing the same as Global Montreal's Morning News, and they wouldn't be crushed by the Toronto produced Canada AM. Matching the ratings of a show with a lower budget on a station that has never been a competitor for news is not a success by any means. If you enjoy BT, that's great, the team over at City Montreal are doing the best with the resources they have and I wish them the best but BT is a ratings failure in Montreal, and given Rogers commitment to covering news i'm not surprised.
    Last edited by TVViewer; 01-20-2014 at 08:30 AM.

  20. #60
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    No, this is not true. This is the problem with the BBM diary system.
    When will you guys at Shaw Media stop the blame game already ?
    Not that (Karen) Macdonald really trusts the data she’s seeing. She has long distrusted the BBM diary system, which relies on written surveys in which people report what they’ve watched. Despite the checks to verify the data, she believes people are failing to report when they watch Global shows, mistakenly attributing their viewing to CTV.
    Really ?
    Sore losers always blame the judges for their poor performances. (That's why there are always funny American Idol audition tapes).

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    so you can't claim that it took "exactly 8 months" to gain those viewers.
    Ah yes. Because 500 viewers will watch Global Morning News full time, but during the last october and november surveys, 2200 people decided to watch that show... but get back to CTV after the diary has been returned... that will hurt Richard, Camille and Jessica's feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    This is irreverent, Global is nothing even remotely close to an established station in Montreal. Just because they have been around since 1997 doesn't mean they are established in the market. That's like saying CJNT is established because they have been around since 2001.
    Canwest took over CJNT in 2000 when they brought WIC and was rebranded CH in september 2001. It's been around since the 1980's as a cable ethnics channel, and since september 1997 as a low-power OTA station and on cable 14... One week later, CKMI-TV launched in Montreal on cable 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    The station didn't even become "Global Montreal" until the fall of 2009, before that it was known as a regional station and branded Global Quebec (which isn't very appealing to an Anglophone viewer looking for news that focuses on the Montreal Anglophone community).
    Moot point. Global Ontario became Global Toronto, also in 2009. Both stations were identified by their province name.
    Canwest still managed to use two stations to simsub american programming between 2001 and 2009, and they had weather break insertion... like this :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqSxG_yiilQ

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    In addition, during all this time it wasn't available on BOTH satellite providers, despite the fact that there is high satellite penetration among the Anglophone community in Montreal.
    Ah yes, I forgot to mention something : Both Bell and Star Choice offers all the locals to their subscribers.
    So you can watch Canada AM on any east coast CTV station on satellite, for the monteal market, it counts as CFCF audience. But both Global and Citytv are producing a local morning show.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Again, the ratings for neither show are impressive. I didn't expect them to be. You and others however appeared to assume that BT would be this fantastic huge success. You continuously posted about how much better you thought BT was
    Oh, it IS much better. I may flip to CKMI from time to time for curiosity purposes, but I get bored fast with the interviews on the small table in front of the green screen, I may as well go back to bed.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

 

 

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