Basic Cable Channels

[ottawasnowdog]

I'm one of the people who had little compulsion to climb the wall until recently. As I've mentioned in other threads, I only this year finally got home internet service (other than $3/month dial-up) for the first time, and not directly from one of the big conglomerates. The debacle of Speed/Fox, Rogers, Bell, etc., drove me to see the motorsports I like to watch, since the only way to see it was the internet, from completely legitimate legal sources by the way. And of course then it was quite easy to find other stuff I wanted to see and could easily find from not-so legit sources, without having to pay to subscribe to some hugely over-priced TV channel just for one show. I'll probably be dropping the IPTV part of the service in the not so distant future. A more reasonable type of pick and pay system and 'skinny basic' might encourage me to keep it ... but maybe not.
So much of the thinking of the conglomerates still revolves around the outdated reflexive idea that they can stop us from watching what we want to see. Most people really don't like being told by some arrogant bloated conglomerate that you can't watch that stuff you want to see.

I think thats part of the issue people think its the Crtc or Rogers/Bell stopping us its not its the studios.

[PokerFace]

There's nothing outdated about being the middleman and selling somebody else's product to the masses. The sad thing is that we can indeed be stopped from watching what we want to see. They'll just have to work harder and join forces to make things tougher for us ... and once the masses get too curious about seeing what's on the other side of the walled garden, that's when the trouble will begin.

However, at some point, if the masses work together, it's possible that world rights will be more common, rather than the more common regional or country rights for content that we deal with at the moment.

People tend to listen to authority when large fines or jail time are thrown into the mix. Scare tactics without any teeth, only go so far.

Shaw's new promotional video for Shomi, stars Humpty Dumpty. Hmmm. I wonder why.


[Note: The last 2.5 minutes are just repeated from the first 2.5 minutes]

[Donovan's Monkey]

I think thats part of the issue people think its the Crtc or Rogers/Bell stopping us its not its the studios.

Huh? No production studio or the CRTC was telling Rogers and Bell they couldn't carry a motorsports channel. They could have easily applied to bring in another one to replace Speed, and I would almost certainly have still been a Rogers customer today. Instead, they just couldn't be bothered or didn't know what they were doing, and lied to me and others by saying everything would be on their own TSN and Sportsnet channels. The point I was making was that people will go to another source to see what they want if they have to.

... The sad thing is that we can indeed be stopped from watching what we want to see. They'll just have to work harder and join forces to make things tougher for us ...

Yeah, you're right, but at the moment they don't seem to be making much of an effort. And I'm not sure how they could ever shut down every website that would keep springing up.

I was thinking more along the lines of sports, and what you describe as world rights. If the teams, leagues, etc., (or I suppose production studios when it comes to scripted programming) can and already are in many cases showing and sometimes selling their product directly to viewers on the internet, that means the traditional TV channels and cable companies are no longer the omnipotent middle-men solely responsible for deciding if something is worthy of being shown to us.
And we can and will pick/choose/pay to watch individual shows without necessarily being forced into paying for all the other programming that happens to have been selected by those running TV channels and BDUs.

[Mayhem]

A small minority will benefit, but it will result in the people and families who still watch lots of channels (and you can still watch a few shows yet watch several channels) paying more

You still be able to buy packages at the end of all of this but pick-and-pay will be an option. However packages do make sense if you watch a lot of channels and is the benefit bulk purchasing theory, but only if you're utilizing all the product, if you're just paying a boat load of more to watch no more than five channels, your wasting money.

Another problem is what's in the packages themselves, people would be happy if they could build their own packages rather than take prebuilt packages, even you stated you'll be glad to get rid of TSN if you could.

No, Netflix Canada doesn't have most of the Rogers/Shaw U.S. programming. They have a little bit (and those are non-exclusive rights), but the majority is not available on Netflix in Canada. The difference between Netflix and shomi is the fact that shomi has exclusive rights to past seasons of Rogers and Shaw's hit U.S. conventional and specialty shows.

Rogers VOD doesn't have PAST SEASONS of hit Shaw and Rogers U.S. conventional and specialty series. The difference is while you can watch the current seasons on Rogers On Demand, Global Go, etc.., past seasons will be available exclusively on shomi.

• Bones
• Happy Endings
• Lie to me
• Hannibal
• Family Guy
• American Dad
• Friday Night Lights
• Accidentally on Purpose
• Fringe
• Numbers
• Prison Break
• Community
• Cosmos
• How I met your Mother
• The Good Wife
• Covert Affairs
• The Mindy Project
• The Shield
• 24
• Chuck
• House

They seem to have an large library of past shows and seasons from both Global and City, I guess Bones, Family Guy and The Good Wife is very "non-exclusive". I guess they still have a few shows exclusive. Of course it won't be ratings worthy, seeing that Bell owns the most hit shows in Canada. ;-)

P.S. I didn't include Futurama or Arrested Development since Global lost both shows after their original cancellation.

It makes Netflix attractive to cord cutters who are a minority so small that serving them will not have any noticeable impact on the success of the service. It’s important to ensure that these people remain a small minority, and shomi is just another reason to NOT cut the cord.

Of course cord cutting is a "minority" problem as of now, but do you think Bell, Rogers or Shaw wouldn't call for banishment of Netflix, Google or Apple if they became an majority threat to their bottom line?

No you don't. If you want cable or satellite you don't have to buy internet or phone. They offer special deals that save money if you buy all of them together as opposed to buying them all separately, but shomi and the upcoming Bell service is the first service where you must have a cable or satellite or internet subscription to get access, and since the vast majority of people already have this anyway, getting shomi is not a problem (again, other BDU's can make an agreement to offer the shomi service to their customers, Bell is expected to do the same with their Bellflix service)

Not for cable, but Bell Fibe TV requires an Bell Internet connection, even though they can create an independent ADSL connection using their existing infrastructure...but anger aside, I live in an condo building, so satellite is out of the question for me as the strong winds can rip the dish off the balcony.

[ottawasnowdog]

Huh? No production studio or the CRTC was telling Rogers and Bell they couldn't carry a motorsports channel. They could have easily applied to bring in another one to replace Speed, and I would almost certainly have still been a Rogers customer today. Instead, they just couldn't be bothered or didn't know what they were doing, and lied to me and others by saying everything would be on their own TSN and Sportsnet channels. The point I was making was that people will go to another source to see what they want if they have to.
Yeah, you're right, but at the moment they don't seem to be making much of an effort. And I'm not sure how they could ever shut down every website that would keep springing up.

I was thinking more along the lines of sports, and what you describe as world rights. If the teams, leagues, etc., (or I suppose production studios when it comes to scripted programming) can and already are in many cases showing and sometimes selling their product directly to viewers on the internet, that means the traditional TV channels and cable companies are no longer the omnipotent middle-men solely responsible for deciding if something is worthy of being shown to us.
And we can and will pick/choose/pay to watch individual shows without necessarily being forced into paying for all the other programming that happens to have been selected by those running TV channels and BDUs.

I am talkng aout people who say the Crtc blocks us from watching American Channels.

[TVViewer]

[QUOTE=Mayhem;67116]

You still be able to buy packages at the end of all of this but pick-and-pay will be an option. However packages do make sense if you watch a lot of channels and is the benefit bulk purchasing theory, but only if you're utilizing all the product, if you're just paying a boat load of more to watch no more than five channels, your wasting money.

The cost of the packages will increase as the costs of the channels will increase to offset the lost subscribers. That's the problem.

Another problem is what's in the packages themselves, people would be happy if they could build their own packages rather than take prebuilt packages, even you stated you'll be glad to get rid of TSN if you could.

I'm in favor of removing sports channels from BASIC because the price for sports channels is increasing at an unreasonable rate. Adding channels in basic is should mean getting popular channels at a low price, and it's come to the point where the "low" basic price for sports channels is not low. I personally would still subscribe to the sports channels even though I don't watch them to entertain guests.

• Bones
• Happy Endings
• Lie to me
• Hannibal
• Family Guy
• American Dad
• Friday Night Lights
• Accidentally on Purpose
• Fringe
• Numbers
• Prison Break
• Community
• Cosmos
• How I met your Mother
• The Good Wife
• Covert Affairs
• The Mindy Project
• The Shield
• 24
• Chuck
• House

They seem to have an large library of past shows and seasons from both Global and City, I guess Bones, Family Guy and The Good Wife is very "non-exclusive". I guess they still have a few shows exclusive. Of course it won't be ratings worthy, seeing that Bell owns the most hit shows in Canada. ;-)

P.S. I didn't include Futurama or Arrested Development since Global lost both shows after their original cancellation.

I'm well aware of the programming available on Netflix (I don't consider that a large library, they have a small library of cancelled shows and then only a handful of hit shows currently airing and the rights for those are non-exclusive). The vast majority of Rogers and Shaw's U.S. programming is not available on Netflix and the few hit shows from that list (the ones that are not cancelled) will be available on shomi, along with a ton of hit shows currently airing on Global and City that will have their past seasons exclusive to shomi and not available on Netflix as Shaw and Rogers are securing exclusive rights to past seasons.

Of course cord cutting is a "minority" problem as of now, but do you think Bell, Rogers or Shaw wouldn't call for banishment of Netflix, Google or Apple if they became an majority threat to their bottom line?

They can't "banish" these companies. If cord cutting were to increase to point where it would actually have a noticeable impact the first thing these companies would do is probably shut down the OTA transmitters. The fact that they can give the most watched channels available for free over the air and still have the vast majority of Canadians pay for a cable/satellite subscription is a pretty good indication of just how much they value what's on the BDU service. Services like shomi and Netflix are good added value but they aren't a realistic replacement for what you get with a cable/satellite subscription.

Not for cable, but Bell Fibe TV requires an Bell Internet connection, even though they can create an independent ADSL connection using their existing infrastructure...but anger aside, I live in an condo building, so satellite is out of the question for me as the strong winds can rip the dish off the balcony.

Okay, but what Bell does with Fibe is the exception (besides, Bell is the only provider that doesn't have actual popular channels their customers want just because they compete with Bell Media channels, you are better off with Rogers cable anyways)

[Mayhem]

The cost of the packages will increase as the costs of the channels will increase to offset the lost subscribers. That's the problem.

I'm in favor of removing sports channels from BASIC because the price for sports channels is increasing at an unreasonable rate. Adding channels in basic is should mean getting popular channels at a low price, and it's come to the point where the "low" basic price for sports channels is not low. I personally would still subscribe to the sports channels even though I don't watch them to entertain guests.

I agree that they should remove sports channels from basic, but you've already answer why it won't happen, having an high price channel like TSN and Sportnet removed from basic will only force them to increase the prices of other channels to make up for the loss of lucrative profit.

I'm well aware of the programming available on Netflix (I don't consider that a large library, they have a small library of cancelled shows and then only a handful of hit shows currently airing and the rights for those are non-exclusive). The vast majority of Rogers and Shaw's U.S. programming is not available on Netflix and the few hit shows from that list (the ones that are not cancelled) will be available on shomi, along with a ton of hit shows currently airing on Global and City that will have their past seasons exclusive to shomi and not available on Netflix as Shaw and Rogers are securing exclusive rights to past seasons.

My point was they really don't have a lot of exclusive programming that most Canadians watch. You just have to look at the Top 30 to see that Bell owns most of watched programming in Canada. Having Bell Media programming rights alone could wipe out Netflix and Shomi.

They can't "banish" these companies. If cord cutting were to increase to point where it would actually have a noticeable impact the first thing these companies would do is probably shut down the OTA transmitters. The fact that they can give the most watched channels available for free over the air and still have the vast majority of Canadians pay for a cable/satellite subscription is a pretty good indication of just how much they value what's on the BDU service. Services like shomi and Netflix are good added value but they aren't a realistic replacement for what you get with a cable/satellite subscription.

It's only been four years this month that Netflix came to Canada, changes we're talking about is over the course of a decade. YouTube is only nine years old this year, and look at the impact its had in our world in such a short time. But signs are already showing that people are watching less linear television, and more streaming media.

• "Canadians Watching Less Linear TV." Advanced Television. N.p., 5 Sept. 2014. Web. 26 Sept. 2014. <http://advanced-television.com/2014/09/05/canadians-watching-less-linear-tv/>.

• Oliveira, Michael. "Canadians Watched Less TV in 2013 but Streamed More: CRTC Report." CityNews Toronto. The Canadian Press, 04 Sept. 2014. Web. 26 Sept. 2014. <http://www.citynews.ca/2014/09/04/canadians-watched-less-tv-in-2013-but-streamed-more-crtc-report/>.

• Pedwell, Terry. "Forcing Pick-and-pay Useless, Study Says." Global News. Canadian Press, 25 Sept. 2014. Web. 26 Sept. 2014. <http://globalnews.ca/news/1582014/forcing-pick-and-pay-useless-study-says/>.

Truthfully I don't think web streaming services are going to replace traditional broadcasters like Global, CTV, City or the CBC. What I think they're replacing is the roll of speciality channels where in the 90s. Offering programming and themed programming like sci-fi or history series that couldn't fit on traditional broadcasters, they're making speciality channels obsolete. Sure some speciality channels will survive, but the times are changing and speciality channels are on they're way out in the next few decade.

Okay, but what Bell does with Fibe is the exception (besides, Bell is the only provider that doesn't have actual popular channels their customers want just because they compete with Bell Media channels, you are better off with Rogers cable anyways)

Rogers packagers Sun News Network in their Tier 2 and VIP packages now, if your like me, you don't want to give that cesspool of a channel any dime of your money.

[PokerFace]

The Internet is still an untamed beast, but as more and people jump on the Internet bandwagon to get their entertainment, that untamed beast will need to be caged in some sort of zoo, with all the desirable content locked away behind bars. Look but don't touch. Smell but don't taste. More structure, less freedom to explore.

While the majority is still tethered to its PVRs and traditional channels, the minority boldly go where the Internet beckons them.

The fewer the restrictions, the greater the journey. Satisfaction guaranteed.

The Internet ... yours to discover ... until the masses get in the way.

Note: No drugs were used in the writing of this post.

[Mayhem]

The Internet is still an untamed beast, but as more and people jump on the Internet bandwagon to get their entertainment, that untamed beast will need to be caged in some sort of zoo, with all the desirable content locked away behind bars. Look but don't touch. Smell but don't taste. More structure, less freedom to explore.

While the majority is still tethered to its PVRs and traditional channels, the minority boldly go where the Internet beckons them.

The fewer the restrictions, the greater the journey. Satisfaction guaranteed.

The Internet ... yours to discover ... until the masses get in the way.

The beast has already been tamed; Netflix, Google Play and iTunes have shown you can tame the beast. The problem is that the old guard doesn't want to fade into history, they have it made than any other industry, with guaranteed profits and protection from outside threats. They're not going down without a fight, so expect it to get messy.

[PokerFace]

I ride the Internet roller coaster every day, but I've never used Netflix, Google Play, iTunes or Amazon Prime. I didn't like the initial restrictions or uncertainty of my initial attempts at joining the closed world.

I was close to using Google Play with a VPN, but the payment process called for uncertain extra charges, something similar to using amazon.com and waiting to see what taxes would be charged, and then later reclaimed. I prefer the pricing of Netflix, but not the software that is necessary (just like with iTunes).

I prefer the basic low-tech approach that HMV.com used for music, though the selection was very limited.

I see little difference between Netflix and Shomi. Both are content driven, but that content isn't as wide reaching as one would like it to be. Multiple services will be necessary, just like multiple TV channels are needed to capture most of the content that I would want to watch. Content is added and subtracted on a daily basis from Netflix and similar services. That's not a consumer-friendly environment that I want to be a part of (even at a low $10/month cost).

If Shomi has no commercials, and somebody is used to the conventional TV presentation, I can see how many would choose Shomi over Netflix, especially if the same cable box can be used (as it supposedly can be).

As great a trailblazer as Netflix is, I'm not drinking the Netflix Kool-Aid. And if I had to choose between Cable TV or an Internet life that only included Netflix, iTunes, Google Play and even Hulu or Hulu Plus, I'd choose Cable TV. This from a guy who loves using the Internet ... but the untamed version of the Internet, or at least the version of the Internet that uses more old school technology to make the content more easily accessible without the need for bloated software and restrictions.

Sure, Apple has gotten rid of many of its initial restrictions, but just like I've never bothered using XBMC, I see Apple in the same light; a bloated software package that although wonderful at its core level, it still manages to come across as a boss that I don't want to work for.

I'd rather have access to the actual channel websites on the Internet (with cloud recording capability), than the secondary entities like Netflix and the like.

If the official websites and channels from all over the world would give me simple access for brief time periods at a low cost, without the need of VPNs or complicated payment systems to get around the red tape, I'd love the Internet even more than I already do.

[PokerFace]

I finally bit the bullet and tried Vudu. It worked (for downloading SD content - the Vudu player needs to be closed and then opened again to get the full-screen mode to work), but most of the content that I can't find for free online, isn't available on Vudu, or anywhere else for that matter -- unless I pay for a TV subscription in some cases (that's why cable TV still has some value, although I would only subscribe to US or British cable TV if I could use online cloud recording and the better US PVRs).

I'm lucky that about 90% of what I would like to watch is available online (or via OTA) for free. The other 10% I can live without and I probably wouldn't have time to watch it all anyway (I can't even keep up with what I have access to now)

[ParamountChris]

I don't like how expensive for just Local mumbo-jumbo, it should be $8/ mo, not $25.

[ParamountChris]

i'd pay for Much, MTV, E, M3, Timeshift, Superstations, whatever