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  1. #1

    so the new fall tv season has been announced

    and yet again we'll be force to watch citytv ctv global simsubs yet again:mad: they don't spend their money on any CANADIAN Programming
    Last edited by oggie; 06-08-2010 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Added More Text

  2. #2
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    Move somewhere else if you don't want to watch City, Global and CTV. It is well within their right to air American programming (it happens in every country) and it most certainly is within their right to protect their broadcast rights and the Canadian companies that buy ad time.

    Do we really need another simsubbing complain thread?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by oggie View Post
    and yet again we'll be force to watch citytv ctv global simsubs yet again:mad: they don't spend their money on any CANADIAN Programming
    You do know with all 3 there is about 10 canadian programs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ottawasnowdog View Post
    You do know with all 3 there is about 10 canadian programs.
    10 canadian programs running, what, 8 episodes between november and january?

    Please, name me at least ONE prime-time scripted Canadian series (NOT airing on a US channel and NOT airing on CBC) which will be broadcast for a full 22-episodes season on a STABLE day and time for the whole season.
    Last edited by InMontreal; 06-08-2010 at 01:00 PM. Reason: prime-time scripted
    "It's not a rerun if you haven't watched it yet." (© 2010 by TVViewer)
    "Ne jamais s'obstiner avec un épais. Il va vous abaisser à son niveau et vous battre avec l'expérience."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    10 canadian programs running, what, 8 episodes between november and january?

    Please, name me at least ONE Canadian series (NOT airing on a US channel and NOT airing on CBC) which will be broadcast for a full 22-episodes season on a STABLE day and time for the whole season.

    Sure you could pick it a part left and right and come up with 0.A canadian series is a canadian series it should not matter if it aslo airs on a american network.

    Degrassi
    Shattered
    Flashpoint
    The Listener
    Dan For Mayor
    Hiccups
    The Bridge
    Murdoch Mysteries
    Todd & The Pure Book Of Evil
    So You Think You Can Dance Canada
    Last edited by ottawasnowdog; 06-08-2010 at 11:49 AM.

  6. #6
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    Marilyn Denis, e-talk, Entertainment Tonight Canada, Comedy Now!, So You Think You Can Dance Canada - Im sure these don't count though
    Last edited by Everfresh; 06-08-2010 at 11:45 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB Josh View Post
    Move somewhere else
    wow...

    1) Nobody has the right to tell someone to move if they don't like the system. Everyone has the right to advocate change in a democratic nation.

    2) They only have the right to simsub because they've been allowed to have that right. The same way they've been given the right to use the public airwaves and the soon to be right to collect FFC. This could be revoked at any time if there was enough of a public outcry.

    3) Many would contend that they shouldn't have the rights to simsub *and* FFC.

    4) In other countries they actually produce a great deal of programming for their own country in addition to running American programming.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everfresh View Post
    Marilyn Denis, e-talk, Entertainment Tonight Canada, Comedy Now!, So You Think You Can Dance Canada - Im sure these don't count though
    Most of the series you and OSD list are cheap non-scripted and very small in numbers compared to all the series they air across all their channels.

    If customers could choose the current system or a simsub free one with one American channel for one Canadian channel but that had all Canadian programming on the Canadian one which do you think they'd choose?
    Last edited by NakedGord; 06-08-2010 at 02:21 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottawasnowdog View Post
    Sure you could pick it a part left and right and come up with 0.A canadian series is a canadian series it should not matter if it aslo airs on a american network.
    Actually, it does. Canadian network will not air 'em otherwise, as there's no incensitive (sp?).

    Quote Originally Posted by ottawasnowdog View Post
    Degrassi
    Shattered
    Flashpoint
    The Listener
    Dan For Mayor
    Hiccups
    The Bridge
    Murdoch Mysteries
    Todd & The Pure Book Of Evil
    So You Think You Can Dance Canada
    Are all those full 22-episodes seasons?

    Degrassi - had a huge gap between november 2009 and may 2010. Why?
    Shattered - Will air on Showcase in fall 2010, not on Global. Does not count.
    Todd & The Pure Book Of Evil - Hasn't aired yet.
    Flashpoint - Airs on CBS in simulcast.
    The Listener - Only 13 episodes. No longer in schedule.
    The Bridge - Only 12 episodes.
    Hiccups - Only 13 episodes
    Dan For Mayor - Only 13 episodes.
    Murdoch Mysteries - Only 13 episodes.
    SYTYCD - reality crap.


    So, there's definately no Canadian scripted prime-time series on CTV//A\/Global/Citytv you could start watching in september/october and follow
    throught a REGULAR season until may on a stable schedule with a few reruns put in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Everfresh View Post
    Marilyn Denis, e-talk, Entertainment Tonight Canada, Comedy Now!, So You Think You Can Dance Canada - Im sure these don't count though
    Absolutely not. Out of prime-time or not scripted series.


    Quote Originally Posted by NakedGord View Post
    If customers could choose the current system or a simsub free one with one American channel for one Canadian channel but that had all Canadian programming on the Canadian one which do you think they'd choose?
    All past threads involving TVViewer and canadian content on canadian networks ended up with the conception of only 2 alternate realities:
    - One with canadian network airing 100% canadian content during primetime,
    - One with no canadian content whatsoever on canadian networks.
    And the actual reality, which is all-american content with a few canadian content thrown-in on a low watching night just to keep their end of the bargain.

    Canadian network can buy SOME american programs, but what's the limit on EXCESSIVE ?
    Last edited by InMontreal; 06-08-2010 at 01:31 PM.
    "It's not a rerun if you haven't watched it yet." (© 2010 by TVViewer)
    "Ne jamais s'obstiner avec un épais. Il va vous abaisser à son niveau et vous battre avec l'expérience."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    Actually, it does. Canadian network will not air 'em otherwise, as there's no incensitive (sp?).


    Are all those full 22-episodes seasons?

    Degrassi - had a huge gap between november 2009 and may 2010. Why?
    Shattered - Will air on Showcase in fall 2010, not on Global. Does not count.
    Todd & The Pure Book Of Evil - Hasn't aired yet.
    Flashpoint - Airs on CBS in simulcast.
    The Listener - Only 13 episodes. No longer in schedule.
    The Bridge - Only 12 episodes.
    Hiccups - Only 13 episodes
    Dan For Mayor - Only 13 episodes.
    Murdoch Mysteries - Only 13 episodes.
    SYTYCD - reality crap.

    So, there's definately no Canadian scripted prime-time series on CTV//A\/Global/Citytv you could start watching in september/october and follow
    throught a REGULAR season until may on a stable schedule with a few reruns put in.
    CTV aired Flashpoint and The Bridge ahead of CBS this year - NOT in simulcast.

    Hiccups and Dan for Mayor were aired in core primetime (on a Monday Night) for the majority of mid-season.

    Seriously? A show doesn't get a 22 episode order, so it doesn't count as Canadian networks producing "their own shows" - pretty weak argument if you ask me.

  11. #11
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    ^
    It's not entirely honest to list a half season of a show to show support for CDN TV without denoting that. Really, as far as employment for the artistic community etc, if it's only a partial run it really only counts as about 1/2.

    Ian Morrison should be ashamed of himself for schilling for the FFC campaign on CTV's Canada AM with the low CDN programming they air.

  12. #12
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    So just for comparison I did a quick surf around and checked out what other national broadcasters are airing in primetime ...

    Irish Republic
    Brothers and Sisters, CougarTown, Desparate Housewives, Fair City, FlashForward, The Good Wife, Grey's Anatomy, Home and Away, Lost, The Mentalist, Neighbours, Ugly Betty
    Of those only Fair City is produced by RTE the rest are either US or Australia

    I also know from experience that RTE programming constantly battles and loses with that of SKY, BBC and ITV programming which is available to most DBS and cable subscribers


    Australia
    Seven network owns rights for: The Amazing Race, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, How I Met Your Mother, Private Practice, American Dad!, Bones, Castle, Brothers & Sisters, Criminal Minds, Family Guy, 30 Rock, Gary Unmarried, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, FlashForward, Cougar Town, Royal Pains, Trauma and Parks and Recreation. as well as their versions of Deal or No Deal, Dancing With the Starts and Australia's got Talent plus some local reality fare.

    So this is clearly not just Canadian Broadcasters who are trumping local programming for US based shows, the only difference in other countries is they're not subject to simsubbing like we are

  13. #13
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    The simple fact is, Canada's culture (excluding Quebec of course) isn't different enough from the United States to warrant creating any real, worthwhile television shows (aside from reality crap), when our country's budget for original TV is so low compared to other countries (US, UK) and when we can just get the US stuff.

    But wouldn't I rather just watch this US stuff on the American networks themselves, thus making the Canadian networks useless to me? Yes, of course, but Canadian businesses and employees do need money, even if it means we Canadians have to live with watching poorly designed, low-budget crap channels to see our US favorites.

    I wish they'd just rebrand Global to Fox Canada, CTV to CBS Canada, etc. so all Canadians watch the shows the way they were meant to be watched (especially events like Super Bowl).

    Torrents/Megavideo doesn't hurt either. I caught up on all the newest MythBusters episodes from Discovery Channel (USA) earlier this week using Megavideo.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everfresh View Post
    CTV aired Flashpoint and The Bridge ahead of CBS this year - NOT in simulcast.

    Hiccups and Dan for Mayor were aired in core primetime (on a Monday Night) for the majority of mid-season.

    Seriously? A show doesn't get a 22 episode order, so it doesn't count as Canadian networks producing "their own shows" - pretty weak argument if you ask me.
    Not only is his argument weak but once again it's full of wrong information. Not only was he wrong about the CTV's shows but also wrong about Shattered not airing on Global, despite the fact that he made a reply to the Global fall schedule thread.

    Do we really need a thread like this every week? Could next week's thread please include correct information and not a bunch of lies?
    Last edited by TVViewer; 06-08-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simsub_hater View Post
    The simple fact is, Canada's culture (excluding Quebec of course) isn't different enough from the United States to warrant creating any real, worthwhile television shows (aside from reality crap), when our country's budget for original TV is so low compared to other countries (US, UK) and when we can just get the US stuff.

    But wouldn't I rather just watch this US stuff on the American networks themselves, thus making the Canadian networks useless to me? Yes, of course, but Canadian businesses and employees do need money, even if it means we Canadians have to live with watching poorly designed, low-budget crap channels to see our US favorites.

    I wish they'd just rebrand Global to Fox Canada, CTV to CBS Canada, etc. so all Canadians watch the shows the way they were meant to be watched (especially events like Super Bowl).

    Torrents/Megavideo doesn't hurt either. I caught up on all the newest MythBusters episodes from Discovery Channel (USA) earlier this week using Megavideo.
    The likes of ctv and global/citytv are not that bad and i. would not call them low budget.BOth have very strong line up even citytv has a good line up.

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    Very strange criteria. Since when does 22 episodes equal a season, why does a show have to be scripted to count as Canadian, and why can it not be on CBC?

    As for Naked Gord's question, you know very well that your proposal is not sustainable. Scripted content with a minimum of 22 episodes per year is extremely expensive to produce; there is simply not enough advertiser money to allow five Canadian networks to make all-original programming while competing against big budget US shows. Add to the fact that according to the defenition listed here, the show could not be sold to US broadcasters to help cover the cost.

    Look in most overseas countries that do not have access to US networks. Prime time is still mainly made up of US programming, movies or cheap local unscripted talk shows. Yes there are some exceptions, but in general that is the model.

    For example, here's what's on network TV tonight in Spain:
    TVE 1 - Soccer
    TVE 2 - Movie
    Antena 3 - Spanish talk show "El club de chiste" followed by scripted show "Fisica o Quimica"*
    Cuatro - Spanish talk show "El Hormiguero" followed by House
    Telecino - "La pesadilla de jesulin" a one-off documentary
    La Sexta - "el intermedio" (basically an e-talk type show) followed by Batman and Robin

    So none of the above shows would be considered Spanish according to the defenitions listed on this thread.

    * This would not count as a Spanish show by InMontreal's defenition because seasons are 8-12 episodes, and it is sold to other countries including the US for broadcast there.

  17. #17
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    I agree that the 22 episodes being a weak arguement. In every country except the United States 13 episodes is a full season. So BBC shows like Doctor Who and Merlin don't really count as British content either then?

    I've never said that the Canadian nets shouldn't produce Canadian programming, but only complain if you would actually watch it, which I know very well that most of the people who complain on here wouldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by NakedGord View Post
    wow...

    1) Nobody has the right to tell someone to move if they don't like the system. Everyone has the right to advocate change in a democratic nation.
    My point was that it isn't changing. There is no way that the system is changing, end of story. Like I've said a million times, do you guys even consider the local Canadian companies that pay to advertise on these channels.

    I'm not saying that people shouldn't have a voice about change, obviously they should, but its not like anyone's rights are being abused.

    3) Many would contend that they shouldn't have the rights to simsub *and* FFC.
    Many being about half of people on here at the most. Which means well half than less of the Canadian population, since I don't really know anybody who cares what channel something is on. Its not as though you are watching a poorer quality broadcast most of the time. The problems usually come with live programming.

    I don't get the "right to simsub" and whether they should have it argument. In every country channels pay for exclusive rights to television programs, and in every country (that I know of at least) those rights are protected. In the US, any programming from Canadian channels is blacked out if it is the same as something on a local station, to protect the local station, and once again, more importantly local companies.

    We always could go to a system where people in border areas get the odd US channel on cable and maybe everyone gets PBS, but otherwise you don't get any American channels. I don't want that, and nobody else does, but its the only other solution. At least then people wouldn't complain about simsubs, which has to be my least favourite word ever.
    Last edited by NB Josh; 06-08-2010 at 05:17 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB Josh View Post
    We always could go to a system where people in border areas get the odd US channel on cable and maybe everyone gets PBS, but otherwise you don't get any American channels. I don't want that, and nobody else does, but its the only other solution. At least then people wouldn't complain about simsubs, which has to be my least favourite word ever.
    I think the main problem with this idea is that over time CTV and Global would slowly stop purchasing as much US content and opt for more reruns or cheaper programming. Right now they have an incentive to purchase as much as they do so they can simsub over the US networks who always promote the heck out of their programming during non-simsub times.

    Without these nets being available Canadian broadcasters could get away with cherry picking content.

    A prime example of this is seen on specialties in Canada, there is a lot of content from the US cable networks that gets aired months later on our specialties or in some cases never gets aired at all. If we had the US specialties in Canada and the domestic specialties had simsub rights you would see our specialties airing new episodes of the cable series same day/time for simsub opportunities.

    It's the Canadian way after all :)

  19. #19
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    In every country except the United States 13 episodes is a full season
    That is not true, most series that air on US cable channels have seasons that have between 13-16 episodes per season. For example, Monk had 13 episodes in its first season then 16 every season after. Personally I like it, the seasons are shorter but the episodes are more compact and the storylines flow much better because there is not a lot of filler since there are less episodes. A series that has 20 or more episodes in any given season tends to stretch thing out plot wise.

    I believe the CDN series have less episodes due to budget constraints, probably don't have the money to produce more episodes. Having said that, just because they produce less episodes per season does not mean the shows are no good, in fact many of the recent Canadian shows such as Flashpoint, Republic of Doyle & Being Erica (to name a few) are quite good.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Not only is his argument weak but once again it's full of wrong information. Not only was he wrong about the CTV's shows but also wrong about Shattered not airing on Global, despite the fact that he made a reply to the Global fall schedule thread.
    Shattered hasn't even started yet ! It has ZERO episodes, regardless on which provider airs it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tofino View Post
    Very strange criteria. Since when does 22 episodes equal a season, why does a show have to be scripted to count as Canadian, and why can it not be on CBC?
    The CBC is a public broadcaster, just like PBS. The most watched shows air on comparable privately owned networks CTV/Global/Citytv, which are at the same level as ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX/CW.

    Look guys, the question is simple: Is it possible to create a Canadian primetime scripted TV series (NOT Mini-series!) that you can watch from september to may?
    There are around 32 weeks in a regular TV season, so a 13 episodes season is NOT ENOUGH. I am not interested in a show that will start sometime in november and will be on and off like a schedule cat and mouse. I'm looking for a show that you'll get hooked to from start to end that will air every week on that day at that time, NOT thrown away in the schedule to better fit simsub opportunities.

    Why aren't we able to produce a 22-episodes per season series that will be renewed for at least 5 years, so we'll have enough content to rerun it in syndication?
    At this moment, private canadian broadcasters just order a limited small number of 13-episodes shows that runs for one season. Is that enough to get you hooked get you in the mood so you can't wait to watch the new season next september? Heck no.

    For the record, I never stated that a 13-episode series does not qualify as a canadian series.

    Also, UK and Australia have something that we don't even have in Canada: Daily daytime soaps. Other countries also have their shows in their own languages. We don't. So what if you don't like that kind of shows, the fact remains that we don't produce enough memorable long TV series.
    "It's not a rerun if you haven't watched it yet." (© 2010 by TVViewer)
    "Ne jamais s'obstiner avec un épais. Il va vous abaisser à son niveau et vous battre avec l'expérience."

 

 

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