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  1. #61
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    [Shaw Direct is also way better than Bell at protecting broadcast rights for local stations. Every local station on Shaw Direct has their programming rights protected in their local market. Bell is NOT protecting the exclusive broadcast rights of almost every local television station they carry. They do across the board simulcasts of Toronto and Vancouver stations. When it comes to the financial situation of local stations Shaw Direct blows Bell out of the water.
    For the record, it isn't technically possible for Bell to simsub the way Shaw Direct does as the echostar hardware is not capible of virtual channel over-ride, hense why Bell simsubs nationally with Vancouver and Toronto stations. Unfortunately it does hurt local ad revenue but it does protect national ad revenue and in primetime there is probably more national ads than local ads.

    I hate simsubs and they drive me crazy sometimes however this is not something that will ever change so I usually try to watch and record my shows on Canadian channels to avoid having the beginning or the end cut off. This is actually a very good reason for Shaw Direct to carry CTV Two in HD. Rather than risk having the begining or end of a show cut off on the American network, one can tune to CTV Two HD and insure that they get the entire episode.

  2. #62
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    [QUOTE=bigoranget;62795]

    For the record, it isn't technically possible for Bell to simsub the way Shaw Direct does as the echostar hardware is not capible of virtual channel over-ride, hense why Bell simsubs nationally with Vancouver and Toronto stations. Unfortunately it does hurt local ad revenue but it does protect national ad revenue and in primetime there is probably more national ads than local ads.
    It results in lower ratings and lower ad rates for any station operating outside of Toronto or Vancouver. The fact that national advertising is still available on Toronto and Vancouver stations does not offset this fact. It's still costing the broadcaster revenue and hurting the revenue of local stations, and doesn't change the fact that Bell is not respecting the exclusive program rights purchased by the local station. I understand the reason Bell does this is because of the technology they use but I still don't think it's something they should be allowed to do. In my opinion they should be required to invest in the technology to protect the exclusive broadcast rights of local television stations. There is a major difference between Shaw Direct not protecting the HD broadcast rights of two CTV2 HD stations and Bell not protecting the broadcast rights of any station operating outside of Vancouver or Toronto in both SD & HD.

    Not that I think Shaw Direct has always been great with respecting local stations. The local HD stations they added in May should have been added years ago and their carriage of local HD stations was totally unacceptable before the recent additions. Their treatment of local stations totally changed when they purchased Canwest. Before they purchased Canwest they weren't even carrying enough local stations in SD, many of those stations were added and now that they have the capacity they have a very good selection of HD locals. They have changed their ways in treating local stations and although their treatment still isn't perfect (I wont consider it perfect until every local HD station is carried) I stand by that they are doing a far better job than Bell in regards to both providing value for consumers and fairness to local stations.




    I hate simsubs and they drive me crazy sometimes however this is not something that will ever change so I usually try to watch and record my shows on Canadian channels to avoid having the beginning or the end cut off. This is actually a very good reason for Shaw Direct to carry CTV Two in HD. Rather than risk having the begining or end of a show cut off on the American network, one can tune to CTV Two HD and insure that they get the entire episode.
    There are also people who enjoy watching shows simsub free. Look at CTV Two's summer schedule. It's a ratings disaster. They are only simulcasting one show airing new episodes in primetime and that's moving to CTV in a few weeks. They will be airing nothing new and just simulcasting a few low rated repeats not good enough to air on CTV. In the fall their schedule gets better but for now I see zero benefit for the consumer. In my opinion there are other stations producing local news in HD with a stronger schedule that Shaw Direct should add first before they even think about adding CTV Two HD. This isn't Shaw trying to protect Global, if that's what they wanted to do they wouldn't have added all those CTV HD stations which are actually competitive with Global for viewers, it's a case of them not adding HD stations that provide no value for their customers. Bell on the other hand is refusing to carry CTV's strongest competitor in several markets. I am certain that if Bell didn't own CTV you would see a far more even number of CTV and Global stations and ZERO CTV Two affiliates. Unless you are going to add everyone CTV Two HD is hardly a realistic channel to add given the circumstances

  3. #63
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    Okay we get it TVVIewer, you think CTV Two sucks and doesn't deserve HD carriage. It doesn't meet Shaws "standards" just like many other channels where Shaw is the ONLY BDU in Canada not offering them.

    I'm not the only one calling Shaw Direct out on the lack of CTV Two HD carriage. Other people have posted publically on their twitter and facebook feed. You are the only one trying to defend it. Why can't you just agree that Shaw Direct should add at least CTV Two Barrie and Victoria in HD just as Bell should add some more Global HD stations to their line-up?

  4. #64
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    Also as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are plans for additional HD locals on Bell and my understanding is at least 3x more Global channels are in the pipeline.

    There is some channels planned for launch next week (June 20th) however it is unclear if their will be any locals in that release.


    Remember both Shaw Direct and Bell are almost at capacity (yet again) so you wont see a tone more on either provider. The long term solution for Bell will likely be a complete conversion to MPEG-4/8PSK Turbo for SD and HD. Shaw Direct's future is unclear because of Shaw Broadcast; they dictate the terms on when existing channels will go MPEG-4. I will say that Bell is more "proactive" in taking steps to allow for expansion where as Shaw has had a long history of dragging their feet on making decisions. This is true of both Shaw Cable and Shaw Direct. Most cable systems in Eastern Canada took steps a long time ago to upgrade their plants up to 860Mhz where as Shaw is only doing this now. There are still some places in big markets that are only built to 700-750Mhz. In fact the only market Shaw has that is completely built to 860Mhz is Hamilton and that was done by Mountain Cable before the purchase back in 2009 (4 years ago).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoranget View Post
    Okay we get it TVVIewer, you think CTV Two sucks and doesn't deserve HD carriage. It doesn't meet Shaws "standards" just like many other channels where Shaw is the ONLY BDU in Canada not offering them.

    I'm not the only one calling Shaw Direct out on the lack of CTV Two HD carriage. Other people have posted publically on their twitter and facebook feed. You are the only one trying to defend it. Why can't you just agree that Shaw Direct should add at least CTV Two Barrie and Victoria in HD just as Bell should add some more Global HD stations to their line-up?

    Do the people requesting CTV Two HD know that these stations don't have local news in HD?

    I'm not saying they shouldn't add CTV Two HD, I would like them to see them add every local HD station, I just don't think a channel offering no unique content in HD should be added before a channel that actually has unique content in HD. There are still some locals missing with HD local news not yet carried on Shaw Direct. I don't think CTV Two should be added before them. Is it really so crazy to think that a channel with non-duplicate content in HD should be added before a station with duplicate content?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoranget View Post
    Also as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are plans for additional HD locals on Bell and my understanding is at least 3x more Global channels are in the pipeline.

    There is some channels planned for launch next week (June 20th) however it is unclear if their will be any locals in that release.

    .

    I know for a fact that Shaw Direct has informed some local stations that they plan to add them within the next couple of weeks, I don't know whether or not any will be from CTV Two but there are more locals coming to Shaw Direct. If you look at their lineup it did look like they slotted in some room for CTV2 for the future.

    As for Bell, even with adding 3 more Global's they will still be giving CTV an unfair advantage. If they don't want to carry every station then fine but they should at least stop carrying more CTV than Global. They should carry Global in Edmonton and Saskatoon where Global is the #1 source for news and in Regina, Winnipeg, and Halifax, all markets where CTV is carried and where Global News has an audience (not to mention the timeshifting benefits). This would result in Bell carrying the same number of CTV and Global stations (8 each, excluding CTV2) putting both networks on a level playing field
    Last edited by TVViewer; 06-13-2013 at 04:39 PM.

  7. #67
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    Is it really so crazy to think that a channel with non-duplicate content in HD should be added before a station with duplicate content?
    If you live in an area where I'm from where you are subjected to simsubs from CTV, Global and Citytv, then it makes sense to have CTV Two. Before I left Shaw Direct I couldn't count how many times beginnings and endings of shows would get cut off due to simsubs. If I had the option to watch a program on one of the Canadian channels, it would have avoided that problem.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post


    As for Bell, even with adding 3 more Global's they will still be giving CTV an unfair advantage. If they don't want to carry every station then fine but they should at least stop carrying more CTV than Global.


    OK, so the guy who think the 3:1 rule for specialty channels (for those who don't know, the 3:1 forces BDUs to carry 3 independent category B specialty channels for every category B specialty channel they carry that they own) should be done away with now thinks Bell should not be carrying more CTV stations then Global. Wow, how hypocritical. Not surprising, changing your views to suit your argument at the time, which always supports Shaw.

    And why is it that only for Global, why shouldn't the same rule apply to CBC or Citytv or independent channels combined? Because it's Global right, and they are your employer? Of course that's it. If you think a sat company should carry all HD locals, then your never going to be happy because Bell owns 22 I just quickly counted form Wiki, and Global only has 13 (just counting owned and operated stations). By simple fact that Bell has more stations makes more sense for them to carry more stations.

  9. #69
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    Bell just added Slice HD, Lifetime HD and OLN HD today so TVViewer can cross these two "popular" channels off the list of exclusive channels on Shaw/Shaw Direct. What did that take?...three weeks.
    Last edited by bigoranget; 06-20-2013 at 01:10 PM.

  10. #70
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    Pathetic. 210 HD channels on Shaw Direct. What a rip-off !

    210 minus 23 HD Pay-Per-View english - 1 3D PPV - 4 in french - 4 adult ppv = 178
    182 minus 16 HD Centre Ice - 14 NFL Sunday Ticket = 148

    Unless you're filthy rich, you can't subscribe to a PPV channel.
    Unless you're plain stupid, you can't watch anything on NFL and NHL out of season. Paying 30$ a month watching black screen?

    You're left with 148 choices, in theory. How many affiliates of the same conventional channel you can actually receive and use? There's no point in watching CTV Toronto and PVR on CTV Montreal. No point in watching both Global Regina and Global Saskatoon. No interest for Global BC1 for the rest of Canada. For argument's sake, let's count one timeshift channel per timezone.

    So we went down from 210 to... oh, a double digit number of channels one canadian anywhere in the country can actually watch unique programming in HD.

    I HATE false advertising !
    Heck, Shaw is so stupid they can upgrade the 40 Galaxie music channels with HD pictures of the song album and promote 250 HD channels.
    Last edited by InMontreal; 07-29-2013 at 08:37 AM.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  11. #71
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    You left out 6x channels for NBA League Pass and 3x channels for Big Ten Network Extra games.

  12. #72
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    It's been another month, Bell has closed the gap on missing channels by adding Slice HD and Lifetime HD last month plus as of today they also added NFL Network HD.

    So far Shaw Direct hasn't delivered on any additional channels other than the initial offering back on May 29th.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    No point in watching both Global Regina and Global Winnipeg. No interest for Global BC1 for the rest of Canada. For argument's sake, let's count one timeshift channel per timezone.
    .
    Seriously? Wow. You need to work on your time zones.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoranget View Post
    It's been another month, Bell has closed the gap on missing channels by adding Slice HD and Lifetime HD last month plus as of today they also added NFL Network HD.

    So far Shaw Direct hasn't delivered on any additional channels other than the initial offering back on May 29th.

    The gap isn't closed. They are still missing some popular specialty channels in both SD & HD (Nat Geo Wild, Global News BC 1) They are still unfairly carrying more CTV stations than Global despite the fact that Global stations offer more unique HD content than CTV. If Bell cared about news viewers in local markets they would be carrying Global stations in Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, and Halifax, all markets where Global News has an audience and is in HD and markets where all Bell subscribers would benefit with timeshifting. Global is CTV's only real competitor in these markets in regards to local news so Bell has no excuse to not carry these stations in HD. Bell would rather carry low rated specialty channels in HD (analog channels like E! & MTV which get beat by some of Shaw's DIGITAL channels in the ratings) over ensuring that their subscribers get HD local news in their market.


    You can get these same channels on Shaw Direct for a far lower price, and when it comes to rewinding live TV and recording programs, I have had a WAY better experience with Shaw Direct's Advanced HD PVR over Bell's HD PVR Plus, although with Shaw Direct you might not even need a PVR, because Shaw Direct has an incredible VOD service jam packed with television's most watched shows. Bell does not even offer a VOD service for television programming.
    Last edited by TVViewer; 07-26-2013 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Edited to remove an incorrect statement I made about Bell's packaging, as corrected by bigoranget below

  15. #75
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    By the way, you neglected to mention that if you are a new Bell customer or have been forced to switch over to Bell's new packaging you have to buy Bell's most expensive package to even access Lifetime or Slice. That's over $105 dollars a month just to access these channels, then you have to pay for Bell's hardware. Adding a few of the HD channels available on Shaw Direct and then charging customers $100+ just to watch them is hardly closing the gap in my opinion.
    This is simply not true. There are smaller programming bundles that can be added on to the Good or Better packages. For example if you just wanted the "Good" package for about $40/month, you can add the Entertainment theme package that includes Slice/Slice HD for $10. Lifetime is available as a stand alone $2.50/month or is available in the Movies and More Package for about $10/month.

    You can get these same channels on Shaw Direct for a far lower price, and when it comes to rewinding live TV and recording programs, I have had a WAY better experience with Shaw Direct's Advanced HD PVR over Bell's HD PVR Plus, although with Shaw Direct you might not even need a PVR, because Shaw Direct has an incredible VOD service jam packed with television's most watched shows. Bell does not even offer a VOD service for television programming.
    Sorry, Shaw Direct's PVR doesn't come close to any other PVR's on the market, including Bell, Cogeco, Eastlink, Telus or Rogers. Shaw Direct's PVR is buggy piece of junk and there are far more people that will agree with me on this regard. Not only is it buggy but it also has a very ugly dated GUI as well. Shaw Direct's only real advantage is the ability to have the full suite of VOD on their boxes but I don't think it's that big of an advantage because the majority of the programs are SD only. For the most part the only HD VOD there is PPV movies. Also, keep in mind that for rural customers (Which is big part of the customer base for both companies) they don't have fast enough internet to support the VOD service anyway.

    Sidenote: VOD sucks on pretty much any provider as far as I am concerned so I personally don't count it as a feature.
    Last edited by bigoranget; 07-26-2013 at 09:08 AM.

  16. #76
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    For the record this is what Bell carries that isn't on Shaw Direct

    CBOT-DT (CBC - Ottawa)
    CKVR-DT (CTV Two - Barrie)
    CFMT-DT (Omni1 - Toronto)
    CJMT-DT (Omni2 - Toronto)
    CBRT-DT (CBC - Calgary)
    CJCO-DT (Omni - Calgary)
    CIVI-DT (CTV Two - Victoria)
    CHNM-DT (Omni - Vancouver)
    KCTS-DT (PBS - Seattle)
    WPCH-DT (Peachtree TV - Atlanta)
    WSBK-DT (MyNetworkTV - Boston)
    WPIX-DT (CW - New York)
    KTLA-DT (CW - Los Angeles)
    MFun! HD
    Warner Films
    MGM Channel
    AXN Movies
    Sony Movie Channel
    W Movies HD
    Documentary HD
    OLN HD
    CBS Sports Network HD
    MLB Extra Innings
    NCAA Season Ticket
    CTV News Channel HD
    CBC News Channel HD
    CablePulse 24 HD
    Business News Network HD
    HLN HD
    MSNBC HD
    Discovery Science HD
    Animal Planet HD
    Investigation Discovery HD
    Bold HD
    Game Show Network HD
    E! HD
    NFL Network HD
    CBVT-DT (Radio-Canada - Quebec)
    TV5 Quebec HD
    ARTV HD
    Explora HD
    Prise 2 HD
    Casa HD
    Evasion HD
    Zeste HD
    Addik HD
    Yoopa HD
    Cinepop HD
    MusiquePlus HD

  17. #77
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    This is what ShawDirect carries that isn't on Bell

    Global News BC1 HD
    CHEK-DT (Ind. - Victoria)
    CFJC-DT (City - Kamloops)
    CKPG-DT (City - Prince George)
    CIVT-DT (Global - Edmonton)
    CKEM-DT (City - Edmonton)
    CKSA-DT (CBC - Lloydminster)
    CITL-DT (CTV - Lloydminster)
    CBKT-DT (CBC - Regina)
    CFRE-DT (Global - Regina)
    CKND-DT (Global - Winnipeg)
    CHMI-DT (City - Portage la Prairie)
    CKPR-DT (CBC - Thunder Bay)
    CHFD-DT (Global - Thunder Bay)
    CICA-DT (TVO - Toronto)
    CKMI-DT-1 (Global - Montreal)
    CJNT-DT (City - Montreal)
    CFCF-DT (CTV - Montreal)
    CIHF-DT (Global - Halifax)
    CBNT-DT (CBC - St. John's)
    CJON-DT (NTV - St. John's)
    Disney Junior HD
    H2 HD
    FX Canada HD
    Nat Geo Wild HD
    Big Ten Network HD
    CHOT-DT (TVA - Gatineau)
    CFGS-DT (V - Gatineau)
    CFEM-DT (TVA - Rouyn-Noranda)
    CIMT-DT (TVA - Riviere-du-Loup)
    CHAU-DT (TVA - Carleton)
    Disney Junior HD (French)

  18. #78
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    I think anyone will agree that Shaw Direct has an advantage in terms of locals in HD but I'm willing to bet more people will prefer Bell because they have far more specialty channels in HD. The fact of the matter is, all the popular network prime-time series are available in HD on either provider and I highly doubt HD News is at the top of peoples priorities when they are choosing a provider.

    Also, CFSK-DT (Global - Saskatoon) should be up on Bell very soon. They have recently been testing that feed.

    It is never going to be feasible for either Shaw Direct or Bell to carry every local channel in HD. They only way they could possibly do that is if they convert every channel to MPEG-4 and don't have duplicate SD/HD signals. We are years away from that.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    No point in watching both Global Regina and Global Winnipeg.
    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Seriously? Wow. You need to work on your time zones.
    Aren't they both scheduled to sim-sub Eastern time zone US networks?
    Last edited by SportsFan; 07-29-2013 at 01:22 AM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Seriously? Wow. You need to work on your time zones.
    A reply like Maybe you meant Regina and Saskatoon would have been nicer and less insulting.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

 

 

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