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  1. #1
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    Call for comments

    In an effort to end the off-topic discussion currently going on in "NFL and CTV Extend Multi-Year Broadcast Deal Through SUPER BOWL XLVIII" thread, IMve started this one in the hope we can find a solution to cut down on network bashing currently going on. I don't mind people bashing the networks, I have a problem seeing the same bashing going on almost every network release. Hopefully we can find a solution that will satisfy every partys.

    to recap:

    From toinfo
    I agree that the quality of the forums have taken a hit because of all the network bashing. I still check in because sometimes I find something new I want to watch (often thanks to press releases or schedule updates posted by TVViewer or Everfresh), but seriously - there should be one "I don't like simsubbing" thread that I (and the rest of the membership outside the four or five that like to debate it ad nauseum) can easily ignore.
    From Emarse
    Agreed. I hate to bring up the competition, but Digital Home has a thread dedicated to CRTC bashing. I don't see why we can't have threads dedicated to simsub bashing, CRTC bashing, NFV bashing, etc.
    From TVViewer
    I agree with tofino and emarsee that there should be a single thread where these people can rant and vent all they want about the Canadian broadcasters. This forum would be a much better place if the bashing was done in a simple single thread instead of in a reply to almost every single press release and programming highlight.
    Randi Dertzo
    Owner, http://www.channelcanada.com/

  2. #2
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    GREAT IDEA. Thanks Randi, this will make all the thread much lighter in tone and more interesting.

  3. #3
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    Exactly. It's sad what these people have done to this forum.
    I have been a long time lurker on this forum, since its early days, but have only posted for a short while now. Just an observation here but it appears that things have heated up ever since this TV Viewer fellow came onboard and started the debate on the whole FFC issue. Everything was fine before hand as I recall from reading posts here from time to time so maybe he/she should step back for a while until things cool down or better yet until the CRTC rules on the FFC/Value for signal issue?! Nothing against this user (everyone is entitled to an opinion) but most of the animosity or negativity if you will appears to be directed at this one user.

    Thoughts?!

  4. #4
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    As I asked in another thread, is it possible to give out your opinion once and let the thread evolve? Currently, all messages are being responded by TVViewer who keeps hammering the same answer repeatly, regardless of what you wrote in your reply. This gets annoying, you get a feeling that whatever you say is worthless and you should shut up... and name calling becomes the norm.

    Check out the messages in the same thread, they all states " they sold out ad time". OK, we heard you the first time, is it necessary to repeat 6 times an information founded on an undated source (and without a reference link)?

    http://www.viewers.ca/discuss/showpo...0&postcount=29
    http://www.viewers.ca/discuss/showpo...2&postcount=31
    http://www.viewers.ca/discuss/showpo...5&postcount=39
    http://www.viewers.ca/discuss/showpo...7&postcount=41
    http://www.viewers.ca/discuss/showpo...0&postcount=43
    http://www.viewers.ca/discuss/showpo...5&postcount=46

    That's the problem we have on the forum.

    Off course, in the case of the Superbowl, when you receive the info that you'll be stuck with canadian ads for the next 3 years, your reaction will be "damn, I won't get to see US ads that everyone wants to watch". If the person who defends CTV would have posted ONCE, the thread would have been fine and moved on. But as you noticed, it ain't the case.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  5. #5
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    CDNViewer, I have been a member of this forum since 2006. There was few hostile debates at this forum before the Fee for Carriage debate because many of the regular members we have now joined after the Fee for Carriage debate started. Anyways this thread is about trying to stop the constant replies from members blatantly bashing CTV and Global in nearly every press release or programming highlight that get's posted.

    As you can clearly see, tofino, Emarsee, and myself all think that there should be a single thread where members can complain about Canadian broadcasters and simulcasts, instead of having them reply to every thread with a negative comment that turns into a hostile debate.

    So what does everyone else think? Is this a good idea?
    My views are my own and do not represent any company.

  6. #6
    I wouldn't mind having a single thread devoted to the issues where discussions can be extremely heated and polarized. I would welcome that, it would make reading and discussing relevant issues much easier. :D

  7. #7
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    I think this is a good idea, it seems sometimes that discussions on other topics seem to get railroaded and end up in a FFC/local TV bashing debate. I respect everyone has an opinion on this and sometimes the discussion is very worthwhile. However when it ends up in attacking people for their opinion that doesn't do anything positive and makes regulars like me less willing to post or even read what others have posted.

    I would suggest a completely different thread and keep channel or programming specific discussions separate

  8. #8
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    I don't know the intended purpose of those in charge of it, but the board is called viewers.ca, not NetworkLackeys.ca

    If you want to have the network press releases and promos posted by people identified as representing the networks, specialty channels, etc., without any replying comments allowed from others, then I would suggest THEY be the ones who are segregated into one forum specifically for that, as opposed to attempting to push everyone else into one forum.

    I've seen this on some other message boards. There is one forum that is called something along the lines of "Advertiser Announcements", where those forum posters who are advertisers are registered and specifically identified differently from other regular registered posters, by something in their user name (a different colour, or maybe extra notation under their name), and they are the only ones who can post in that forum at all, and also the only one able to post a response to their own thread once it has started in that forum. Often they are also limited to one post a day in this forum, but can also post in the regular discussion forums with others if they want to (but usually with no advertising allowed in their signature). And there is only one designated advertiser per company allowed to post in the Advertisers Announcement forum to prevent spamming -- on this board presumably it would be one for each network and one for each specialty channel.

    This is not to say they would necessarily have to be paying to advertise, but of course that would be up to those in charge of the board.

    If they don't want to read anything critical or negative from regular viewers, then tough luck, just stick to their own fenced in forum, and don't read the other forums where everyone else is free to discuss what they want.
    Last edited by Donovan's Monkey; 02-10-2010 at 09:05 AM.

  9. #9
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    I'd agree with Donovan's Monkey, why not a special place for those who want to post those press releases, especially when it does seem to be (especially coming from one member in particular) mainly to do with advertising.

    I find the incessent network bashing to be pretty annoying as much as the next guy, but sometimes it is a legitimate response to the thread that was posted, whether it be a press release or not.

    Sure, a single sticky thread could be made for complaining about the networks, but still, legitimate responses to press releases should still be allowed.

    What constitutes as non-legit responses.... immediate responses with little more than just "CrapTV", or snippy comments about "hijacking" the US feed, and the like.
    Last edited by musimax; 02-09-2010 at 06:03 PM.

  10. #10
    @Donovan: It's fine if people want to discuss the topic on hand, but the issuse is that people are bashing the networks in almost single thread. It gets rather tiresome and the discussion soon drifts away from the orignial purpose.

    I wouldn't mind if there was a seperate forum for press releases and the like, but people must be able to comment on it without it turning full out flame war.

  11. #11
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    Agreed with the comments from musimax and Donovan's Monkey. Many of the press releases posted can easily be accessed on the respective media site (CTVglobemedia, etc.) and are nothing more than self-promotion for whichever network they're about. Maybe if the posters of these threads were to simply post a link and summarize the contents, discussions wouldn't get so heated. Many of us simply find it ridiculous to read a thread on a public forum about how "CTV has the best shows! CTV is Canada's #1 broadcaster!!" and so on, especially when many of us think these networks are nothing more than US re-broadcasters meeting their minimum Cancon requirements.

    In my opinion, Either press releases should be restricted to one thread/subforum, or the posters should be putting them in their own words (i.e. removing the self-promotional context) and posting a link.

  12. #12
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    I don't mind the press releases as its convenient to some members. They don't want to check 10 media sites and they want it at one place where they can comment on it. This is also why channel Canada exists. We post mostly press releases but people find it convenient to get them all in one place.

    Would putting a prefix like [PR] before the subject of the new topic where the content is a press release would be a good compromise? Everyone could easily identify the press releases from the other threads. This would keep relevant information about each broadcaster at the same place and would permit members to comment on the releases if needs be. Something like:

    [PR] CTV Delivers Canada’s #1 News Coverage of Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games
    Randi Dertzo
    Owner, http://www.channelcanada.com/

  13. #13
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    While I agree with Donovan's comments as well, I personally feel that press releases have no business being posted on a discussion forum, they should be banned period- isn't that what sister site Channel Canada is for?! Its time the mods tightened things up a little here, its been a free for all for far too long. If you don't want these constant flame wars or network bashing as people call it then lets enforce some of the rules that are in place. I am guilty for my far share and I will take blame for starting the latest one in the CTV-NFL forum, from now on I will stay clear of the user who is responsible for much of this negativity, he/she knows who they are whether they care to acknowledge it or not.

    If you want things to be toned down then take a look at the reason why the negative rhetoric is occurring in the first place and fix the problem don't just tell people to move the bashing to another separate forum.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simsub_hater View Post
    Agreed with the comments from musimax and Donovan's Monkey. Many of the press releases posted can easily be accessed on the respective media site (CTVglobemedia, etc.) and are nothing more than self-promotion for whichever network they're about.
    For CTV and Global press releases, yes they are self-promotions, and reality is we do enjoy to point out on the forum the wrong use of words they used to claim the properties they imported, not produced.

    The US networks announcements are useful to figure out what's coming up. They are normally ignored by the Channel Canada's website as they're not their target/concerns.

    Banning press releases is not a good idea, they are generally the hand that feeds us! And this is what we do here: biting that hand.

    Still, press releases should ALWAYS come with a MANDATORY SOURCE, a reference link.
    We had a good run: 2006 to 2020. Thanks for the informations and debates.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by InMontreal View Post
    Still, press releases should ALWAYS come with a MANDATORY SOURCE, a reference link.
    Agreed. Sources are a must if someone want to verify the authenticity of the press release.

  16. #16
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    The members that are not happy with press releases, programming announcements, and schedule updates being posted need to understand that the people that post here actually make up a small % of the people that read these forums. As of writing this message 12 guests are viewing this fourm, I get private messages from members all the time, and these press releases/programming highlights/schedule updates/ect.. usually get a large amount of views. People are reading them, and it's unlikely they want to read a huge argument when they do.

    Because of this reason, I suggest some of the off topic replies to previous press releases are deleted, why would anyone want to join a forum with off topic arguments in every thread? One example: I posted a a press release from Global "thanking" CTV for it's press release, instead of actually commenting on what the release said the first reply was someone bashing Global for not airing enough high rated Canadian content, it turned into a huge debate and the thread was closed, now anyone that reads that press release has to read a huge debate. ONLY the first reply (which I posted) actually was on topic, the rest were all off topic.

    I feel that when people come to this site for programming info, they shouldn't have to read a hostile argument that has little to do with the thread. Nobody is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to complain, i'm just saying that why can't there be a separate thread for people to do that instead of making a reply to every single press release or programming highlight that get's posted. If someone reads the "Schedule Update: This Week on Global" thread, they shouldn't be forced to read an argument.
    Last edited by TVViewer; 02-09-2010 at 09:58 PM.
    My views are my own and do not represent any company.

  17. #17
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    Again my opinion is that I don't mind the press releases, i'd rather come here and find them from all the broadcasters than jump around from site to site trying to find them, this forum is for everything related to canadian TV and the press releases give those of us interested a chance to read them and post our own thoughts and opinion..
    this is one of the few discussion forum sites I visit on a daily basis and simply for this reason

  18. #18
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    I agree - the press releases and other annoucements are useful. As is (productive) discussion of them.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    ...If someone reads the "Schedule Update: This Week on Global" thread, they shouldn't be forced to read an argument.
    So then what's the problem with having a separate forum or sub-forum for press releases, listings, and the rest of your obnoxious propaganda you've been relentlessly spamming this board with to drive away legitimate real viewers and posters? There would just be a notation to place any related discussion or questions in the open discussion forums. If there really are people who just want to read the press releases, etc., then it's all right there conveniently in one place without anything else.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    The members that are not happy with press releases, programming announcements, and schedule updates being posted need to understand that the people that post here actually make up a small % of the people that read these forums. As of writing this message 12 guests are viewing this fourm, I get private messages from members all the time, and these press releases/programming highlights/schedule updates/ect.. usually get a large amount of views. People are reading them, and it's unlikely they want to read a huge argument when they do.
    First, let me start off by saying I'm not against the pr's, as longas they are intended for the purpose to start a discussion. TVViewer, for the most part, seems to post pr's for the purpose to promote Canwest, rather than to start a meaningful discussion. In fact, he has actually admitted to posting pr's for the purpose not to even expect anyone to reply to them, so therefore, solely for the prpose to promote. To quote what he actually said,

    "As for what replies I was expecting, this was not posted for replies, I didn't post this for you and the other broadcast bashers to read, I posted this for the hundreds of people that read this forum but don't post."

    So this guy is clearly posting pr's for the very purpose to promote Canwest services. We know he is doing it for that reason b/c he admitted to posting not to get replies, and he is a Canwest employee and 99.99% of all pr's he posts are Canwest pr's.

    This is a forum, a place for discussion, not a place for promoting your company. If a pr is posted for actuall discussion, it's fine. But for the most part, Channel Canada is the place for pr's, not really here. If people are interested in reading those things, then they go to Channel Canada, there, they can read them all in one single place.

    Also, did you ever think that those "12 guests" were actually members of the forum who are just not logged in? Sure, there are probably lots of guests who come by here throughout the course of a day, but I'm just saying that just b/c 12 guests are on the forum at one time, doesn't mean that they are not actual members who are not logged iin.

    Quote Originally Posted by TVViewer View Post
    Because of this reason, I suggest some of the off topic replies to previous press releases are deleted, why would anyone want to join a forum with off topic arguments in every thread? One example: I posted a a press release from Global "thanking" CTV for it's press release, instead of actually commenting on what the release said the first reply was someone bashing Global for not airing enough high rated Canadian content, it turned into a huge debate and the thread was closed, now anyone that reads that press release has to read a huge debate. ONLY the first reply (which I posted) actually was on topic, the rest were all off topic.

    I feel that when people come to this site for programming info, they shouldn't have to read a hostile argument that has little to do with the thread. Nobody is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to complain, i'm just saying that why can't there be a separate thread for people to do that instead of making a reply to every single press release or programming highlight that get's posted. If someone reads the "Schedule Update: This Week on Global" thread, they shouldn't be forced to read an argument.[/
    Frankly, why would anyone want to join a forum when all that's there is pr's everywhere with no actual discussion? I would rather a thread go off topic then for that thread to just sit there with no one replying to it.

    As for that thread you are talking about. That pr you posted, had 2 lists of the top ten shows in Canada by demos, then DavidToronto made a comment on the lack of Canadian shows in the top 30 list in Canada. It's a legit comment to be made for that posting. And although there were some comments about complaining about the networks, it generally got off topic by members going back and forth on how the thread was "hijacked" and what was or wasn't a legit reply.

    Also, no one is forcing members to read the replys to these pr's. If someone just wants to read the pr (first, I would suggest go to Channel Canada) then all they have to do is read the first post, and stop right there.

    And for a final comment unrelated to the TVViewer post, for the people who do the incessent network bashing, when you see a pr, why not just stop posting snippy comments about the broadcasters that are unrelated to the topic? Why not just use some of that willpower and as much as you hate them and feel the need to post something, just don't. Like I've said above, I find the bashing quite annoying as well, unless it's constructive and generally on topic. Posting a snippy comment just for the sake of it because you have ill will towards them isn't necessary.

 

 

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